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Xfire Debate Club 9th Meeting: Women and Gaming
October 25th, 2007 (Open Debate - Xfire Users)

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: whats up everyone

Jiffy_No0b: hello

[NBK]Raccoon: hi

Xornado: hi

[Xfire-TTHS] Paddy: hi all

[cAs][TTHS]MMOaddict: hey

SpartanChick316: how is every ones day going?

=KoF=Joker: hay guise

=KoF=Joker: decent

Xornado: hi

[cAs][TTHS]MMOaddict: what debate is this about again?

[Xfire-TTHS] Paddy: v well

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: yo

Nodgene: view debateox's profile

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: arggg so tired, this debate better be worth it >:|

[cAs][TTHS]MMOaddict: ok ty

[Xfire-TTHS] Paddy: its about hot girls playing PC :O

=KoF=Joker: I asked some chick to a dance and she said no so im pretty bummed, but other then that days been fine

=KoF=Joker: lol

Celeste: Ill give you cookies if that helps the worth :p

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Hah, MY EX GIRLFRIEND ISN'T HERE.

SnoWytch: neither is my ex husband

=KoF=Joker: lmao

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: is he a hot girl

SpartanChick316: ?

Celeste: 'is he a hot girl' XD

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: well yeah i mean

Xornado: yea is she hot?

Nodgene: How many of the general xfire public here are actually girls? :\\

[Xfire] SDaria: Hey guys. Don't forget that when the debat starts this room will be for DEBATING only. No more hot girl chatter. =oP

SaLS111: : )

SnoWytch: *raises hand*

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: this debate is about hot girls playing games and she says "my ex husband isn't here"

geekluv: probably more than you think

[NBK]Raccoon: I am

=KoF=Joker: D:

Badazz: I am a girl

geekluv: it's not about hot girls playing games

[xfire] Spencer: That goes for hot guys, also.

[Xfire-TTHS] Paddy: lol

SnoWytch: i was responding to the ex gf not being here :D

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: For 10 bucks i'm a girl.

[xfire] Spencer: Specifically me.

[Xfire-TTHS] Paddy: when dose this start i have work in the morning?

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: my ex gf was a hot gamer girl

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: she played DDR with me all the time

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: and BF2

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: ...and SSBM

[NBK]Raccoon: I play UT

Nodgene: 4 xfire girls and counting.... Interesting.

=KoF=Joker: hot girls that play videogames dont eist

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: god i'm such a loser.

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: god i'm a loser.

SpartanChick316: souldnt most of this talk be in unofficial chatter

Xornado: my girl here is playing WOW with me:D:D

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: woah woah spam sorry

Celeste: Im not so much of a 'hot' girl but my girlfriend is ^^

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: DOOOOOD GIRLZ! NO WAIII THEY IZ LEGEND!!!!

Celeste: But what do looks have to do with anything :p

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: Welcome to 9th meeting of the Xfire Debate Club!

 

We are very excited to have you all with us today!

 

Remember, Xfire users should be debating the topics in the Open Debate Room - The Open Debate Room is not for Spam. It will be moderated strictly. User representing themselves intelligently will be invited into the Xfire Debate Club Clan: The Two Handed Sword. Invites will be sent out within a week after the Debate. Invites will be scarce.

 

Basic chatting should go in Unofficial Chatter.

 

Q&A in the last 15 minutes will go in the Question Room (room invites for Question Room will go out later)

[NBK]Raccoon: but what does "hot" have to do with anything?

[Xfire-TTHS] Paddy: Girls are hot

=KoF=Joker: someone beinpg [hot is a opinion

[xfire] Spencer: Nothing, if you're blind.

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: ^^

Xornado: yea

[Xfire] SDaria: ALRIGHT EVERYONE THE DEBATE HAS STARTED. UNOFFICIAL CHATTER SHOULD BE MOVED TO THE UNOFFICIAL CHATTER ROOM. NO SPAMMING.

Xornado: ok i understand:)

Badazz: OK

Celeste: Define 'unofficial chatter' for me please.

[Xfire-TTHS] Paddy: ten four

SpartanChick316: it is the other chat room

Xornado: what chatroom?

geekluv: Unofficial Chatter...that's the general chat room

[xfire] Spencer: Unofficial chat is for chat that isn't about the debate.

Xornado: yea,i know

SpartanChick316: you should have ben invited into 3 chat rooms

Celeste: Yes my bad, I didnt remember that it was a chat room name lol.

Badazz: Welcome to Xfire all you higher up women in the Industry..*claps

SpartanChick316: well im not really any where yet >_>

SpartanChick316: college WOO

Badazz: more applause

Badazz: haha

Xornado: how many girls are here using xfire,they said about 20% i think

Xornado: but i dontknow really

Badazz: I am an xfire user

SpartanChick316: i am

[NBK]Raccoon: as am I

Badazz: and I use all the other stuff too, I am a community developer

[Xfire-TTHS] Paddy: :O

Kash: I think we all are!

geekluv: same here

☭ wMute ☭: My first impression on female gamers on xfire is that most are probobly WoW players.

Badazz: Hi apocalyptica!!!

[NBK]Raccoon: pffft

=KoF=Joker: true dat

[NBK]Raccoon: I play UT

Badazz: no WOW here.

Badazz: FPS

Celeste: I am female and it would be sort of strange for males to be in here... in my opinion :p

SnoWytch: I am a woman gamer, been so for 30 years :D

Badazz: mainly and puzzles

Kash: lol, well that's better than thinking we all play dogs on a pink ds

SnoWytch: WoW is a late addition

Xornado: this debate is not about wowXD

Badazz: Hi Robin!

Badazz: Hello Destructable Colette!

pink <3: from what i can see, some girl do like fps games.. more than rpg such as wow..

[NBK]Raccoon: agreed

Celeste: WoW certainly is not the first or main area of female gamers :p

shoopuf: Hadn't been to pixeltamer.net before, but this is intriguing, since I love easily accessible games and have played Dofus in my browser. It's convenient.

Celeste: Helen is a feminist >:3

☭ wMute ☭: From a male perspective, I'm talking about first impressions. As in, from a male gamer who has "no clue" what the statistics are concerning what female gamers play.

Badazz: I am a gramma that likes to shoot stuff

pink <3: but the trouble is that, the majority of the female gaming do get harassed alot

Kash: I prefer games that require problem solving and strategy over mindless destruction

pink <3: gamers*

shoopuf: Female gamers play...games!

radu12345: What's this for?

SpartanChick316: yeah i get alot of like sexist ppl online

shoopuf: Really, we're not aliens.

Celeste: Sexual harassment is ridiculous -.-

Badazz: I like the unique social arrangements

[NBK]Raccoon: no one knew I was female until I told them

radu12345: Sorry, may I ask what this is?

Kash: not that mindless destruction is always a bad thing - it's just better if yiou planned it to be *really* destructive

Badazz: HI Lesley

mclazyj: I know that when I go into a game playing as a female character, I get swamped with friend requests two minutes in

SpartanChick316: it is for the women debate

SpartanChick316: thingy

Celeste: radu this is a chat room for women and gaming debate.

☭ wMute ☭: I play a lot of CSS, TF2 and whenever a female speaks up on voice comms, the immediate reaction from a lot of gaming guys is "Oooh a girl"

radu12345: Eww...

radu12345: I'm not a woman.

[NBK]Raccoon: lol, yep

SpartanChick316: lol

mclazyj: Exactly

SpartanChick316: not every one is >>

shoopuf: It's nice to see the journalists as well as developers on here today. Shows that we really are all over the industry.

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: I can be a woman if you want me to.

Celeste: scary ^

radu12345: Goodbye.

Badazz: I get to tell the FPSers that they got owned by a Gramma!

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: just kidding?

radu12345: I've got to go to bed.

mclazyj: I feel that it does not help that women get portrayed as sculpted godesses in games either

SpartanChick316: yeah

SnoWytch: When it is found out I am a girl, I have had every reaction in mmo's from the mildly ammusing "r u hawt" the the very scary emote's of being raped

☭ wMute ☭: lol, Pause does bring up a valid point. Outside of voice communication, gender and sex is not an immediate issue.

Celeste: Pause you wouldnt be the first shim :P

Badazz: but I also play with much of my family members... so I dont feel alone

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: mclazy: actually thats extremely hilarious, i hope we cover that because honestly that is all women are portrayed as

Kash: goddesses, are fine, large breasted party girls less so :P

 

[Xfire] SDaria: ***** FIRST QUESTION *****

 

[uwe]helen kennedy: Okay as a way of kicking things off... what are the specific challenges you have faced as a player of games and as a professional?

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Alyx is probably one of my favorite female characters in a game where the chick isn't painted as OMFG HOTNESS

Badazz: when I first started in Moderating in a community mostly male, I had run ins with being a woman and not taken seriously

mclazyj: Well that is what I mean Kash, women with double d cups and 24" waists seem to be the too often norm

Celeste: Men are a huge problem and can actually infringe on my gaming. Its almost as if I have to hide my gender inorder for them to stop sexually harassing me.

SnoWytch: agreed celeste

mclazyj: how about more strong female leads like Kate Walker in Syberia or April Ryan in The Longest Journey

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Celeste: that name of yours doesn't help with that xD But on topic, i've found alot of my friends doing that

Badazz: shoudl we answer in here or in FIRST room?

[NBK]Raccoon: I play for a clan, which offers me some protection

Kash: That's funny, I don't think I have ever been harrassed because of my genderin game

lunaria42: I play mostly console games, so I have not run into any harrasment problems online

Celeste: Also I find that you get called male if you refuse to validate your gender to them, via webcam, mic, e-pic... w/e

SpartanChick316: alot of guys i have played with over xboxlive on halo3 have not ben the kindest, now i just take to muten and given them bad reviews

[NBK]Raccoon: agreed

☭ wMute ☭: Again speaking from a male perspective, I can't possibly give my experience on what kind of challenges a girl might get, or even guess what one faces. I do know that when I play a female in a game like Guild Wars, or even something like Freestyle Street Basketball, the common misconception among many guys is that: Girl character/avatar = girl behind the keyboard, which i kinda scary IMO.

SnoWytch: Why should our name matter? We shoudnt have to hide, nor be made to feel that we should.

shoopuf: It's kind of funny because I grew up playing games and never felt 'different' for it. The only thing I suppose is when it comes to hiring.

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: It gets annoying honestly when I go into a game and then a girl enters and pretty much everyone in the server starts in like OMG IS THAT A REAL GIRL?!?!?!?!? And then just berates her to no end. It is like wow a girl.... just play the game.

Badazz: slow down

SpartanChick316: woa

Nodgene: Well surely the issue of the unrealistic representation of women is more a social problem than a GAMING issue...

SpartanChick316: i cant read that fast >>

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: SnoWytch: i said that because she says she has to hide her gender, so the name Celeste doesn't help in hiding it haha

mclazyj: now that may be trye nodgene

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: I think some men feel that the gaming world is for masculine persons while it really is for both sexes..........their are some women that do just as good or even a bette job than men in either the creation of or playing of video games.

mclazyj: but it does not help

 

[Xfire] SDaria: ***** NEXT QUESTION *****

 

[uwe]helen kennedy: Great. Do you think that most women are taken seriously as players? and if not why not? is this true of women who play games competitively?

shoopuf: I don't actively advertise my gender in games, but I don't hide it either. There's always the ignore feature if necessary.

Celeste: I dont really hide :P Im just saying I would have too to avoid sexual harassment XD

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: helen kennedy: from my experience, no

☭ wMute ☭: Agreed, Nodgene. Female gamers don't need to do much. It's many male gamers who have the adjustments to make.

Täring: girls are not taken serius, beacause, males think they cant play as good as them

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: Not alot of girls are taken seriously because it is a male dominated society so of course no one sees them as being top players in games.

[NBK]Raccoon: I think females have to prove themselves a bit more then men'

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: I think they are not but they should be......

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Yeah, males tend to think that females are on a lower level in gaming which isn't true in most cases

Celeste: but the reason for some of the problems is that the opposite gender actually poses as female gamers for personal gain...

shoopuf: I think we're 'taken seriously' if we demonstrate our interest and knowledge, but often people judge before they actually listen to us.

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: yes they do have to prove them selves more than guys

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Celeste: the wonders of the internet :D

Badazz: I started with a viscious name so that they would take me serious, I got mistaken as a guy anyway forever in the clan I am in

☭ wMute ☭: I've been in Guild vs guild matches in Guild wars, and the one female we had in our crew was like any other guy. It was a non-issue. Then again, a lot of us knew each other in real life. For strangers on the internet, it might have more a factor on one's perspective on the female gamer's overall skill.

geekluv: women should never have to "prove" themselves in gaming..unless maybe they're doing it competatively

mclazyj: I think that the women that go into games like Counterstrike and the like tend to get ignored as having skills, because males just figure there is no way a girl would be into a game that hardcore

shoopuf: When it comes to competitive gaming, I still think that a lot of people don't like seeing women be competitive in anything, especially against men, so it's lagging behind there. Changing slowly, especially with some more coed teams out there.

mclazyj: The look at the female gamer as one who plays on Pogo or the Sims

Celeste: If I wasnt already lesbian.. video games would of pushed me to be one :p

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: mclazy: or they just think "oh my god its a girl let me be nice and suck up and maybe she'll talk to me"

mclazyj: and it is a terrible stereotype

Nodgene: In my gaming circle this isn't such an issue, for one when my good friend got owned by a girl in another friend's CS clan he was astounded how good she was, rather than saying anything bad about it. It seems to be more of a "wow, you're good." than "wow, you can play a game!". This seems especially true as most guys I know my age are just desperate for women, so the subconcious urge to compliment and flirt just adds to it I guess.

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: exactly

☭ wMute ☭: I see gaming like golf. there shouldn't be differences between male or female, since it's based more on skill rather than physical prowess

Kash: I think you've hit it on the head wMute, if you play with friends they accept you as a friend, then start to see you as a player

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: yeh badazz is a kinda guy name.....but i could go with a name like "double d's" and win in games and make people ....main;y guys" feel bad

shoopuf: But often people think the Frag Dolls, for example, are just eye candy, but they do have to be able to play games. The sponsorship they have is another debate entirely though

Kash: if you play with straingers they have nothing to go on, so they make up their own stereotype

mclazyj: I have a friend that is a female and plays competitvely and I have great DOA matches with her online

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: i've known people on my ventrilo where if i invite a friend of mine who happens to be a girl gamer in, the guys would like, stumble on their words and be like "IS SHE SERIOUSLY GONNA PLAY WITH US BUT SHE'S A GIRL OH GOD SHE'S GOOD"

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: Sorry to pick on you Celeste, but that is one of the major things that guys think about female gamers.... They are either overweight and grotesque or they are lesbians.

mclazyj: but at soon as a third party comes in the room, it becomes invites to video chat hell

Nakashige H2O: is atha twin hear

SnoWytch: I do avoid all voice chat, it causes to many problems

Badazz: i went by badazzbiotch

pink <3: i guess people view online gaming as being like football, male only.. but infact girls can and will achieve more goals than men can, seriously lol

[NBK]Raccoon: "They are either overweight and grotesque or they are lesbians"....please

Celeste: Jack, dont get me started on what its like to be a lesbian woman gamer! XD I'll never shhh :p

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: GETTING BEAT BY A GIRL TO MOST GUYS IS A KINDA PUT DOWN....BUT THEY ARE JUST AS EQUAL AS WE GUYS ARE

Kash: But, Jack, if they were would it matter?

☭ wMute ☭: What kind of problems, SnoWytch?

Badazz: i figured tehy would know i was a badazz female

mclazyj: I have no problem being beaten by a girl. Especially if she has skills

shoopuf: Definitely, there's this standard of looks that no one holds male gamers to. But at the same time I've seen other female gamers criticize the ones who decide to game in makeup, so it's kind of a damned if you do/don't situation

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: I think that the girl gamer stereotypes and hindrances are stronger on the internet than in person honestly, anyone agree?

Celeste: In games, I kill men mroe then they kill me >:3

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: No but I am saying that is preconceived notion people have.

mclazyj: I am more upset when I get beat by someone who has lesser skills than I

Kash: who cares about your weight, your looks, your sexual preference, none of that affects your ability to play

SnoWytch: Mostly begin harrassed, chat always seems to turn to a sexual nature on voice when I enter. All I want to talk about is games!

mclazyj: Yeah

 

[Xfire] SDaria: *****SUB QUESTION*****

 

[uwe]helen kennedy: Apocalyptica & others.. what are the elements of 'culture' are particularly problematic?

[NBK]Raccoon: redvblue

mclazyj: But then again Pause, it is easier to be someone else online

Nakashige H2O: twin

mclazyj: if you are overweight you can be as skinny as you want to be online

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: Badazz i have no prob gettin owned by a female player I just see it as getting own...but this rarely happens :)

Celeste: Apocalyptica... if you are TOO good, you get called a guy lol

mclazyj: or as fit

mclazyj: as you would like to be

☭ wMute ☭: One element in real sports to look at when talking about this is the famous tennis match between Billie Jean King against John mcEnroe. Or I think it was those two. I think they played a real match, rather than one 'for fun' like the ones they have with Anna K and whatshisname

Nodgene: The fact the internet is full of morons most likely. Other than that. *shrugs* I don't think there are any social faux pas or barriers which really prevent women from gaming or developing games on any level.

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: but thats what i mean, on the internet for some reason there's more of the stereotypes going on, while if you're there in person all that stuff goes away and people are equals (at least from my experience)

[NBK]Raccoon: agreed

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: nodgene: not prevent gaming, thats not what i meant, i meant stuff like having to "prove" themselves

Nodgene: Their rarity probabaly adds to their value.

Nodgene: I don't think so

geekluv: the internet provides some form of anonymouty, I think that's why it's worse

shoopuf: It is somewhat easier to do that over the internet because of the anonymity factor. It lowers people's inhibitions.

Badazz: Talking the same language. Religious beliefs and cultural beliefs have affected the way my differnt Moderators on my forums interpret what they are to enforce on the forums and in game....

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: these days not so much honestly, i've seen quite a few gamer girls "spawn" (lol) in the past few years

Nodgene: If you kill someone cleanly it doesn't matter if you're black or white, girl or boy. It matters that you do.

Nakashige H2O: athena twin hey

Kash: If I do get flak in game, it's from kids who just don't have the social skills, that probably has something to do with the stereotyping, they know no better

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: oh hey look her question ties into my statement WOOO

 

[Xfire] SDaria: ***** NEXT QUESTION*****

 

[uwe]helen kennedy: What differences are there in the treatment and representation of women between an 'offline' community and culture and that which exists online?

mclazyj: Could it be that if games online were more segmented by age, this issue would be less of a problem

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: And that is where the preconceived notions of people comes from in part is that anonymity.

☭ wMute ☭: One cultural problem, I think, is the maturity of male gamers and their perspectives on females. Take for example, a typical CSS game where sexist jokes immediately pop up when hearing a girl on Comms. The same occurs when a black guy speaks up on Comms. Because a lot of PC gamers are white male 15-24 year old immature people, anyone outside of this demographic seems to get antagonized because of the power of the intrnet's anonymity. In other words, you can talk smack and not face physical consequences

shoopuf: No, because physical age doesn't determine maturity.

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: And being a female player ain't all bad cuss once you prove your selves some moderators and admins ...people with power let u get away with some things a little more

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: also they're free to make statements like "omg you're obese and lesbian" because there's no reprocutions, while if they did that IRL they'd probably get their ass beat.

Nodgene: It's probabaly relative. A girl comes into a chat, guys say "SHIT, IT'S A GIRL!" A girl walks past a group of guys, they say "SHIT, LOOK AT THAT GIRL!". I don't see it as that disproportionate.

Celeste: Bom Chick thats a really bad thing lol

[NBK]Raccoon: get away with what?

Nodgene: The problem is the morons of the internet don't need to be quiet about it.

shoopuf: But that, jewish123, plays right into the stereotype that female gamers 'want' something or expect something for being female.

Kash: Mclasy, I play GW in a mature gamers guild, and I find there is far less of an issue then, than if I play in a random team

mclazyj: Does anyone remember the woman that wanted armor for her horse or something to that nature and offered her services to a WOW player to get it

mclazyj: and she went through with it

mclazyj: how does that affect women gamers that want to be treated as equals

[NBK]Raccoon: men dont d such things?

pink <3: im guessing that there are less young female gamers is because the parents may fear for their own daughters safety and well being, and other issues.. but then again it could be the same as chatrooms ;p

Täring: it would be nice, if they were treated as equals...

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: I think more women should jump into the whole video gaming scene, its just most girls find gaming to be a "guy thing" so they don't touch it. My sister almost became a gamer but she held onto the stereotype that gaming was for loser guys

[NBK]Raccoon: of course they do, but noone cares

Celeste: Should I have to be ashamed of my birthright to play a videogame?

Täring: nop

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: NO ITS IN THE BILL OF RIGHTS OBVIOUSLY

SnoWytch: But most women I know don't act that way, mclazyj. I do see many men posing as women in mmo's doing things like that, cyber and what not

[Xfire] Klaak: i agree completely, pink

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: i mean come on.

Nodgene: I've read of a guy on wow who played obvious idiots into thinking he was their virtual girlfriends (getting virtual benefits from it), then scaring them off in imaginative ways when they demanded cybering. I doubt girls overall want to sell themselves online any more than they do in real life.

Täring: i think its great to have female gamers

shoopuf: There was actually an article about that the other day on Gamasutra, qok. Basically, girls are less encouraged to play games to a degree but boys are not.

mclazyj: I think some of it is because men look at games as an escape from their day

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: Heck no! Playing games on your birthday is l33t! I do it too. LOL

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Nodgene: that happens so much its not even funny

mclazyj: when a woman gets involved, it is like they are invading the mans leisure space

mclazyj: their private hobby

Badazz: what is the trick to keeping up with three windows?

mclazyj: I was like that at first when my wife got into gaming

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: get more eyes

☭ wMute ☭: I think there's also an issue with North American society versus others. Take Japan for instance, the presence of female gamers have definately shaped the way developpers design game characters: Final Fantasy, etc etc. Compare that to american-made gamers, particularly FPSs, and you see typical white, buff, action hero types.

mclazyj: but I have been more accepting

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: Everyone, please do not send instant messages to the panelists. You are interrupting the debate.

shoopuf: But gaming doesn't have a gender. It's not a "man's" space.

Celeste: I feel that SOME women actually abuse their feminity to gain power, free items, break rules and take advantage of other players. But some of these online women can actually be male... posing as female :P

Kash: That's why me and himself have our own gaming rooms, and our own 360s :P

mclazyj: no, but it was for a long time considered a male hobby

mclazyj: I don't say that to be mean

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Kash: thats not cool, if i lived with my gamer gf i'd like to play in the same room on the same console haha

shoopuf: There have always been female gamers though

Nakashige H2O: athena how many people do we have in halo 3 in h2o and pms

Nodgene: But Mute... American "culture" has a host of problems associated with it, it's not JUST something sexist.

☭ wMute ☭: Gaming shouldn't have a gender and naturally, it shouldnt be men only. But it's people's perceptions that have made it so.

shoopuf: I've been playing for 25 years myself.

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: I AGREE 100% some women use their feminity to get ahead but.....it main;y only works with persons who see them as different

Kash: lol pause, if we did that, we'd have split up years ago, I'm a bad loser

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: Yea that is true alot of people pose as female characters to get their way and gain an advantage... I know my brother does that in the game he plays called Tibia.... He has a female character only to gain items from guys.

mclazyj: Don't get me wrong, I don't think that way, but I am thinking that it may have been looked at that way

Badazz: I come off with motherly ness

Celeste: Gender is important for me, as this may sound harsh... but it helps me know what to expect from that person or person(s)

mclazyj: In single player games where a female character is an option I tend to use the female character

Badazz: it isnt fake

mclazyj: it just seems to be a more fulfilling option

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: I think the stereotypes get pushed by developers, i mean "sex sells" so we sell sexy women stereotypes, guys buy into it and women stay away

mclazyj: sometimes because I thiink the storyline is developed differently

janey: I prefer to play as a female character as well... although not all games offer this

[MeeF] CyAn: Yum, not all women stay away though ;)

[NBK]Raccoon: :)

mclazyj: Fallout is a good example, because you could use your looks as an option to get out of situations

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: and it benefits the companies since in most cases their audience is male, however there is a change going on obviously, and its for the better

Nodgene: Celeste, how do you mean? I understand that psychologically, women and "wired" different to men. You mean something along the lines of behavioural abilities and expectations?

Nodgene: are*(

shoopuf: It doesn't bother me too much if a woman is designed to look like a fantasy, because a lot of male characters are too. It's overdone sometimes though.

Kash: I always play females, because I relate to them better, all my GW characters are tiny women who kick ass - like me lol

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: hoah

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Kash: I play female in most online games because i can't stand looking at a guy for hours on end.

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: But on the flipside of that games such as Tomb Raider, you are a female character with no option for a male counter-part. And the females are all portrayed as stereotypical large-breasted, tiny waste females.

lunaria42: Has anyone played Super Princess Peach, I thougth that it would be a fun game, but I think it is actually kind of demeaning to women.

Nodgene: me too pause!

Kash: lol, that's fair enough, neither can I

Celeste: Nodgene more as... the past few years I have stopped becoming friends with male gamers as they have a tendency to hit on me... say sexual slander or typical racial slurs that I could care little for...

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: I haven't seen a fat chick in a video game....

{J1}: thats not right, men should not do that

{J1}: because ur a girl

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: But most game developers in physical...rough games use male characters because I think they see women as physically weak and emotionally spineless

pink <3: i feel that "fat chicks" is abit off topic ;)

{J1}: it is

☭ wMute ☭: I think there's definately an issue in terms of this generation's developpers. I think game makers are "maturing" to something more sophisticated than simply bland and vanilla characters. Take Rockstar Games. They get a lot of slack for violence, but they make very interesting stuff, character-wise, in terms of GTA and Bully where they'll go ahead and make stars out of people outside the common demographic of gamers. Probobly won't be long until a Female is the lead in a GTA game

Nodgene: should you be asking "are you in a relationship"? more than "are you male"? then? Men are far less likely to hit on you if they have someone special and are not desperate. :)

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Come on, the public asks for it: Make a kickass FPS with a female character that isn't "omg boobies and 24" waist line so hawt lara croft"

Kash: You see I don't mind ideal figures - but the "bounce" physics in DOA is just silly - some teenage boys are growing up very confused

Celeste: I like pink ... someone should tell Apocalyptica :P

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: lol @ pink

pink <3: lol

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: I didn't mean it as physical features but I meant it as the characters designed in games.

|oNu| sAviOr: pink pwns

Celeste: Kash: To much bounce is to much... :P

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: haha pink gaming systems, those are hilarious

{J1}: sometimes doa does take it too far

[NBK]Raccoon: agreed

Celeste: I have a pink Nintendo DS!

shoopuf: I like pink gaming systems. But I also have a pink coat. Doesn't bother me.

Kash: it's when they bounce in opposite directions...

SnoWytch: I don't like pink

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Has anyone played Granado Espada? the game is themed around the baroque era, yet all the women walk around exposing EVERYTHING.

SnoWytch: I prefer black

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: I have a pink slvr and a pink razr!

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: lol

Badazz: wait, are we gonna be on topic in here?

[MeeF] CyAn: Ohhh! I love Granado Espada

Badazz: I am trying to keep up

janey: just because something is pink doesnt make it girly

Badazz: and then we go pink?

lunaria42: I guess I have not had that many bad experiences as a female gamer. When I was younger I was one of few female gamers at my school, but now I know many femalle gamers.

{J1}: lol

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: the game is sick but god its so demeaning to women.

pink <3: i love pink

{J1}: so much talk!!!

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: THE BOUNCE IS THERE FOR A REASON....I DON'T WANNA Sound mean or sexist but......you gotta admit SEX SELLS

Celeste: Wow Barbie... keep that away from me XD

Kash: I used to ride a pink motorbike - noone would ever nick it

{J1}: wel....

Melanie: Actually, there's a lot of guys starting with the pink, I mean, just look at all the pink shirts around you.

 

[Xfire] SDaria: *****SUB QUESTION******

 

[uwe]helen kennedy: Why do you like pink games systems - is that different to the whole pink games nonsense that emerged after the success of Barbie Fashion Designer?

SnoWytch: Yes sex does sell, it's a shame it is that way

{J1}: i guess it gets some buys for that reason

shoopuf: That's a really good point. The female as RPG white mage, etc. The next Final Fantasy game looks to change that with Lightning though

☭ wMute ☭: DOA is culture-related. Japanese seem to like their bouncing boobs, but I don't think it's anywhere close to the sex-related marketing of a lot of american-made RPGs where you always seem some female in skimpy metallic armor. Then again, every culture seems to have some way of objectifying women in their own way.

Nodgene: I think the making unrealistic female characters in games may have a sublte positive effect... In Guild Wars for example - women don't need muscles to do the same as burly male characters... Think about it.

Celeste: Pink happens to be my favorite color... so of course I'd like pink game systems ^^

Badazz: ok pink is great.. but it does lend to trying TOO hard to prove women game

Badazz: and nobody in game is gonna see it anyway

shoopuf: It's just a color option.

lunaria42: I like pink, but I prefer my systems to be black, silver, or white

janey: it's just a gimic

☭ wMute ☭: I think a lot of that perception, Nodgene, comes from the Gen 13 Comics, where Caitlyn Fairchild, the muscleperson on the team, was fairly skimpy and thin

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: Yeh ...its just a color

Kash: I do find it a bit patronising when game companies decide to attract women so release pink things and games with puppies

Melanie: I don't really like pink, I prefer black, so..

shoopuf: If it sells, of course the companies will see it

Celeste: there are different kinds of girls :P, some like pink some like green... some like black or blue XD

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: Eh pink is just another color... people just associate it with females. I wear pink dress shirts and button ups all the time...

SnoWytch: I think I avoid pink game systems because I do feel I need to compete with men, and I want to do so on their level.

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: haha, pink is a funny color, put it anywhere and its like "WOMEN ONLY SEE THIS GAME ITS PINK ONLY GIRLS PLAY IT"

shoopuf: Ugh, the Imagine games.

Nodgene: Surely colour preferance is a result of culture and personal exposure to specific concepts, rather than a gender issue? The association of pink = good for girls seems to be the resultof barby. I get no end of laughs directed at me for wearing a pink shirt and being male.

lunaria42: I can't stand all of those dogz, kittenz, horsez games

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: lol

janey: the pink DS just looks tacky/cheap IMO

{J1}: lol

☭ wMute ☭: Look back on the 80s, the 'strongwomen warriors' were characters like Red Sonia and Bridget Nielson type amazons

shoopuf: So why can't you "compete with men" with a pink console? does it kill your morale somehow?

{J1}: !!!

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: its all about that black DS! that thing looks sick

{J1}: what?

Täring: Gta: Vice City has pink box, does it mean that it is only for women?

Kash: throwing a ball for a virtual cat is not nearly as fun as killing virtual things...

Täring: i dont think so

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: I think its funnier to kick ass with a pink console as a girl. Its like "Hey gaiz i shop at abercrombie and i'm so preppy and HO BITCH I JUST KICKED YOUR ASS IN HALO"

{J1}: men have been battling agaisnt girls for long time

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: black / pink it really shouldn't matter...what should matter is who is behind the controlls

SnoWytch: Yes exactly shoopuf.

☭ wMute ☭: Vice City and pink is more 80s related, since it was a popular color in the overall 80s palette

shoopuf: I don't like the Imagine series because they make it seem like 'catering to girls' involves cuteness and babies and fashion design . I started playing games in the early 80s. I just played what I was interested in.

Celeste: Halo on a DS? HEY I want a female master chief? plz?

{J1}: lol

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: R U MENTAL......

Badazz: i think true personality comes thru in gaming and online period

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: celeste: play DOA on x360, everytime i see that spartan i think its a girl.

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: JOHAN 117?

Badazz: color no color, girl boy or religious or not

shoopuf: The surveys and market research Ubisoft did just seems incomplete. Like they said that girls never said anything about wanting to be police officers, but obviously it wasn't suggested TO them either.

{J1}: lol

Celeste: I played soul calibur 2...

☭ wMute ☭: It's the Metroid effect, Pause

{J1}: JANE117

Celeste: Sophitia is cool :P

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: LOL\\

{J1}: i like soul caliber

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: exactly mute, regardless of where it comes from though, it works.

 

[Xfire] SDaria: ***** NEXT QUESTION *****

 

[13:35] [uwe]helen kennedy: Why do you think the marketing and advertising is so resistant to what seems to all of you (and me) like fairly common sense ideas. Make good games targeted at anyone/everyone? What do you think is at stake for them in maintaining very rigidly defined ways of packaging games and consoles?

lunaria42: I wonder if there any gamers who still don't know Samus is a woman.

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: As much as I see women as our equals HAVING A JANE 117 IS UNACCEPTABLE

Badazz: they are still gettting a grip on this unisex platform

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: why.

[MeeF] CyAn: I thought good games were targeted at everyone?

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: LOL @ lunaria

Badazz: basically the net is UNISEX

shoopuf: They're afraid to take a risk. With everything costing so much these days and development schedules being so long, they make what's 'safe', and market it that way too

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Cyanste: sorry, but most companies target males. It sounds horrible but its true

lunaria42: I think game companies still fill like their target and only demographic is males ages 12 to 27.

shoopuf: it's why there are also so many darn sequels

Kash: I don't really care what the console looks like, I just need good games and a decent interface

lunaria42: Those are the gamers they care about.

Badazz: how do you market to someone that isnt female or male, but rather is a gmaer and wants to see what else you can make happen on the net on my Monitor

☭ wMute ☭: The concept of "good games" is based on perception. "good" games aren't universal. A great game might be boring to someone.

shoopuf: Also, it's very common for companies to totally ban women from their focus groups

{J1}: ...

[MeeF] CyAn: How are ads targeted at those age groups? Just wondering

{J1}: i am so against that

janey: A lot of decent games seem to be ONLY targetted at males... even though they could appeal to a female audience as well

Celeste: I think I'm a bit lost on that question... but it could be because it keeps bumping up... lol

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: Yea the color of a console could be pink with polka dots and as long as it ran I would use it....

Nodgene: Male dominated developers - that's why. Very few women are in development, and until you get more women gamers there won't be more female developers... and in a market saturated with male-ideal games... it's a bigger risk to try to make a game that is better for, or aimed exclusively at women... especially since so little effort has been invested in female gamer psychological profiling and market research, given that it is still a minority.

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: 85.68% of games are targeted at males ....thats just the way it is

Celeste: To bad I couldnt bring into this discussion same sex online marriages :P

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: 87.1905% of statistics are made up on the spot monk.

[NBK]Raccoon: lol

{J1}: well the male mind i guess just likes the violent

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: lol

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: how u no that?

Nodgene: On the internet though.

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: U GOT ME

lunaria42: I remember seeing a special on Playstation's release and all their ads were targed to men ages 21, because they claimed everyone wanted to be that age.

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: And 98.123123% of the people saying those statistics are full of.... well yea you know.

janey: I think game development companies require lots of overtime and lower paid than other jobs - which is not always friendly to a female who may want a family, as a result there are more male developers

Kash: J1 - you'd be surprised how viscious girls cam be

 

[Xfire] SDaria: *****SUB QUESTION*****

 

[uwe]helen kennedy: Mm.. do you think that market surveys of girls and young women are really likely to produce 'out of character' responses?

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: lol

|oNu| sAviOr: Well I know right now there wouldn't too many chick game developers, I have a computer science major, and everybody except maybe 2 are guys.

Badazz: right, well that is another thing, there doesnt have to be sex in the game,

SpartanChick316: males like violence most street fights and school fights are all male >_>

Celeste: Robyn just cause it has pink doesn't mean I'm going to play it :p

☭ wMute ☭: I think it's less about more female developpers, but more about liberal-minded developpers and game publishers willing to take a chance. Take heavenly Sword, for instance. That's a HUGE budgeted game with a female in a typical male starring role, but in addition to that, an asian/south-pacific race modeled female

{J1}: i know

Nodgene: No, they just are harder to do and so people are less likely to put in the hours to do it right... I'd say.

Celeste: I'll play an FPS game if and only if I can shoot some guys in it :P

{J1}: in halo ive always gotten my but handed to me by girls

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: mute, but we all know that GAMING IS VIOLENT and anyone who plays it goes postal and shoots up a school. Girls don't do that. Only guys.

{AFP}Nhb93: well i think that it shouldn't be targeted just at males, there are females that enjoy playing the games just as much but it is seen as being an akward thing, so if it was targeted to both males and females then it might be socially more accepted

[MeeF] CyAn: Why only if you can shoot guys? :F

{J1}: not all of them

{J1}: but still

shoopuf: It wouldn't necessarily bring about totally different responses on the whole, but the data and experience now is so skewed. Female developers would definitely help

☭ wMute ☭: Part of gaming immersion is placing the gamer in the shoes of who you're playing, and because guys represent a bigger share, it's harder for publishers to take a chance with a female lead in a game.

janey: lots of girls I know love shooting games just as much as men ;-)

{J1}: for real

* SpartanChick316 wonders what life would be like without violent males ......

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: janey: for every girl you know that loves FPS, i'll show you 10 that hate it

shoopuf: It also doesn't help that some games with strong female leads, like Beyond Good & Evil, have tanked.

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: We find more heros than heroines in games

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: Pause, that is a very sexist thing to say, how do you know that there aren't females that have wanted to go shoot up a school? Just because they haven't doesn't mean they don't think about it.

{J1}: ?

SpartanChick316: eyah

☭ wMute ☭: But then again, Beyond Good and Evil was poorly marketed.

janey: those ten probably have never tried it

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: jack the ripper: that was the point, its sarcasm haha

{J1}: lets not bring school into this

SpartanChick316: lol

SpartanChick316: yes ples

SpartanChick316: pleas*

janey: I know LOTS of gamer girls...they all (at least occasionally) play FPS

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: LAWL @ Pause.

[MeeF] CyAn: Most of the girl gamers I know enjoy a good MMORPG to an FPS though

shoopuf: That's not anything against strong male characters, because games are games, but we just see so few female leads like that.

shoopuf: True, the marketing team didn't know exactly what to do with it

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: yeahhh jack is a stranger to sarcasm xD i was showing the flaw in that, girls aren't targeted in FPS because males are the "naturally violent" ones

[NBK]Raccoon: fps ll the way

Nodgene: Women have better self-control and everything than men Jack. It's sad but true, we're not that good :(

Badazz: I think it is interesting in LEGO they dont do male female characters

☭ wMute ☭: yeah they do

{J1}: well...

{J1}: thats lego....

Kash: Thinking about female developers -I think the recent Sims EP was managed by woment

{J1}: lol

 

[Xfire] SDaria: ***** NEXT QUESTION *****

 

[13:40] [uwe]helen kennedy: Athena twin, this is an interesting issue about how aspirations are somehow already built in to the toys and games girls are given to play with and choose from. How do you think we could go about addressing this? Who should we hold accountable?

Badazz: do we have to go that way to get out of the sterotyping?

Celeste: I'm just going to state that I prefer to be seperate from the male gender and wouldn't really enjoy seeing the two collide as just 'one' gender o.O

☭ wMute ☭: they have female hair, and shirts with bumps in legos

SpartanChick316: what the?...

Badazz: ya but not in the online Games

shoopuf: Apocalyptica brings up a great point, something I believe myself. Separating ourselves out might be hurting our image. I'm just a gamer

Nodgene: Never heard of female developers much, beyond a picture of a woman on the valve team and an occasional girl in my game design classes... (of which there are none presently, all male)

Badazz: from what I hear

shoopuf: Not saying it's all bad

Nodgene: Give your daughter action man! She deserves it!

janey: <- female game developer, just not professionally

Nodgene: Neat

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: This can very easily tie into the homophobic aspect of society. Just like girls playing with action figures or boys playing with dolls, society looks down on that. So they do the same for girls playing FPS or guys playing games like nintendogs

☭ wMute ☭: I think in the next generation, 10-15 years from now, trends in gaming will change. right now, we're stuck in a male-dominated gaming industry

{J1}: thats just sad, i see famous games but not many of the female developers are mentioned like the male ones

Kash: I had action men, they were my brother's hand me downs

Nodgene: As I say, I havn't come across it much at all.

[MeeF] CyAn: I think sometimes some women go a little too far with trying to be "outside" of the male gamers

Celeste: I wonder what apocalyptica meant by 'women make themselves a target' can you elaborate on that?

lunaria42: You never see a Barbie with a technical career choice (she's usually a cheerleader, a model, and ocassionally a vet.

[Xfire] Klaak: celeste, we're all gamers. it's the same thing as racism. separate but equal still isn't right

shoopuf: but sometimes this insistence on making ourselves into a highlighted group makes others think we're trying to be 'special' . It's an interesting question anyhow

Kash: and I had the jeep - perhaps that's what made me a gamer?

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: lunaria: Barbie: attourney at LAWL

SpartanChick316: <- female - gamer

☭ wMute ☭: lol

mclazyj: or barbie horse riding

Badazz: interesting point about highlighting women in games

Celeste: Klaak we are all gamers but we are all not the same. :p

SpartanChick316: im not much for babie >>

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Barbie: War veteran is a great concept for a game imo

Badazz: my boyfriend complains about black schools, colleges, and black tv black radio...

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: how come we hardly see a guy in distress and a \\heroine comin to his recue......we only see the big buff heros saving helpless women.....

Badazz: we dont wanna go that way do we?

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Monk: stereotypes =\\

[Xfire] Klaak: Celeste we are all human but we have different skin color

{J1}: again, lets leave races out of this

[NBK]Raccoon: please

janey: different skin shape too

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: please

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: Well women are helpless aren't they? That is why their brains are so small? LOL jk

Badazz: right, but here we are, GIRLS in Gaming

Melanie: What I see most of the time is the male players pretending to be female that are the ones putting women in a bad light.

{J1}: were talking about gender

{J1}: not races

Badazz: are we really that different?

lunaria42: That would be an interesting concept ( a guy rescued by a woman)

{J1}: ?

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: DUDE WAHT A SEXIST COMENT jack

SpartanChick316: were actualy supost to be talking about women in the gaming industry

Celeste: Yeah lets just blame all the men :P

{J1}: my but has been saved by girls many times

[MeeF] CyAn: Women in the gaming industry =p

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: lunaria: if you count sora as a girl he rescues riku.

Nodgene: It's the faultof the parents, I suppose, that they don't try to make their daughters more boyish and their sons more feminine... But at the same time, gender roles are important to society... But then, is that specific to society's ill, or is it a fundimental psychological need for one to identify with these?

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: then he cries =(

shoopuf: That's true, sometimes it is the guys playing their interpretation of females. Which kind of plays upon stereotypes

☭ wMute ☭: all kids want to be like those they see themselves in on TV. girls want to be the girls on tv, black kids want to be the black guys they see on TV, etc etc. The problems in gender or race all have to do with the exposure of children to media that is affected by societal stereotypes

Celeste: Lol Collette

pink <3: if sims for online, im not sure that it is or not.. i bet there would be more female gamers around, than there is atm

Badazz: I want to be a woman, taken serious in the gaming industry

{J1}: im just gonna say this, i perfer to be on the team of a girl more than with a guy because they know how to cooperate

{J1}: more

{J1}: with us its just

{J1}: like

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: i agree

Badazz: but I have to admit, My experience as a mother, a wife and taking care of a special needs child have Lent to my being a wonderful Community Leader

{J1}: who ever gets most kills

{J1}: u know?

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: I wish i knew how bad it was to be a female on the internet. My 15 year old friend is HARASSED so often on the internet because of her sex

[MeeF] CyAn: I'm in an all male clan, I'm the only chick, I get along a lot better than I do with other chicks

shoopuf: But nodgene, that's not a matter of making daughters "boyish" or sons "feminine", they're simple human traits not belonging to either gender.

Celeste: We should have a global televised commercial and ads on sites to help stop sexual harassment in games :p

 

[Xfire] SDaria: ***** NEXT QUESTION *****

 

[uwe]helen kennedy: Is the fact that this kind of experience seems rare and clearly shocking a sign that things are improving? What changes can you identify that seem to be making things better?

Kash: Do we have to take all gender distinction away though? Can we not accept and honour our slightly different talents and use them to our advantage in development and gaming teams?

Nodgene: Badazz, if I were leading a design company (as Ihope I do before long) I'll hire you if you're good at what you do, gender; like race or relgion has little to do with it.

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: But look at it like this, women want to be treated as equal in general and in gaming but part of the problem is that they also play the role of victim and succomb to stereotypes.

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: Not all the time.

[MeeF] CyAn: Howso?

{J1}: i see them as all equal

[Xfire] Klaak: but your avatar in games hides your true gender

Celeste: The only significant change I have seen is that there are more and more female gamers every year.

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: true jack

[Xfire] Klaak: so sexual harrassment isn't an issue

Celeste: but its hard to notice subtle changes

Musao: And so many more guys posing as girls to get a hand-up, gotta love it, lol.

Musao: Yeah... I'm totally a girl.... gimme 100 gold?

Musao: ^^

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: I actually prefer not to know if someone is a female or not, because stuff like that always makes you change your opinions about somebody or take somebody less seriously, and i hate that. Everytime someone finds out a fellow gamer is a girl its like "OMFG NO WAI U WANT GOLD?"

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: if ur sexually harasing someone in a game i think you need a life

{J1}: lol

{J1}: for real

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Will be girl for Gil ;O

[Xfire] Klaak: you gotta realize that guys don't roll female characters to pretend to be girls

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: How often do you hear of a male sexual harassement suit? Hardly because women are seen as the weaker and use that to their advantage in that situation. You don't really hear of a woman going to court for raping a guy.

[MeeF] CyAn: :)

☭ wMute ☭: not just women, but everyone succumbs to stereotypes. Intellectuals are skinny white geeks, blonde females are the bimbos, blacks are the token black male speaking out random 'black sayings', asians are the kung-fu people, etc etc. not just women, but stereotypes are a problem universally.

[MeeF] CyAn: Kung-fu! Yeah!

Musao: That's because most guys don't consider it a bad thing to get sexually harrassed by a girl unless they are like demasculating you

[MeeF] CyAn: No, I know sword art actually, haha...

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Mute: i'm an intellectual and i'm a skinny HISPANIC guy. see thats where you're wrong.

[Xfire] Klaak: i have a male and a female character in WoW. i don't like the male drainei model so i rolled female...not some wierd transgender thingy or to mess with people online

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: or if their but ugly

{J1}: i got somethin to say

{J1}: see if bill gates didnt invent halo or lets say a girl did, then this whole chat might have been about guys right?

[MeeF] CyAn: Not really

Musao: Not gonna lie - rolled blood elf female paladin just so I didn't get bored of looking at my toon

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: no, not really, because halo isn't that great.

{J1}: well

{J1}: u get my point

Musao: I could look at my toon for quite a while without getting bored of it, so that's my excuse

Musao: But I get what you're saying

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: nope

{J1}: lets say many of the games

 

[Xfire] SDaria: ***** NEXT QUESTION *****

 

[uwe]helen kennedy: We are already running out of time so some final questions.. If you could effect one single immediate change that would improve contemporary games culture what would it be and why?

☭ wMute ☭: I'm talking about the perceptions of these stereotypes in all forms of media we currently have, Pause. In general, these roles like 'intellectual' 'grunt' 'whatever' will be filled by the people i described above.

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Musao: i said that same thing way back when. I role female because i can't stand looking at a guy for hours

Nodgene: No, but in the UK jack the courts have been abysmal for dealing with sexual assault cases... especially when the victims were drunk or had psychological problems at the time - so women feel raped twice after they've gone through the legal proceedings. Female-male rape DOES happen, but guys arn't exactly one to say "I got raped by a group of girls" to their mates.

janey: Advertise/develop games with females as a target audience...

Musao: It's a fantasy of mine to get gang-raped by women.

[MeeF] CyAn: I see a lot of video games as unisex...

[MeeF] CyAn: Maybe I'm just blind though. :P

janey: Find a female-gamer role model and get them to be interviewed in some kids magazine

Celeste: Ill stick to commercializing that female gamers do not like to be sexually harassed :p

Celeste: and that we do exist :p

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Nodgene: in the US thats starting to change with the influx of Female Teacher/Male student sexual relations. Lots of guys are calling rape and winning court cases

Kash: I'd like to see some FP games with more story and problem solving - intelligent fps!

[MeeF] CyAn: Intelligent FPS?!

[MeeF] CyAn: That's impossible!

≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: I know male rape does happen I wasn't denying that but the number of official counts is far less because it doesn't hold up well and they would get laughed at basically.

Badazz: GET Women more involved in Leadership Roles in the GAME, IN The web and in the Concepts of building games

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Kash: go play Portal.

Kash: Noooo, don't shatter my dream

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: ?????

shoopuf: The key is definitely diversity. But it's been slow going and some outlets and companies are loathe to change

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: LOL

[MeeF] CyAn: Ohhh, I loved Portal.

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: YEH

[MeeF] CyAn: And hated it.

[MeeF] CyAn: Interesting how the main character in Portal was female.

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: i hated that it was so short =(

Nodgene: I have no hope for the functionality of the society of the USA. It's a bad example for anything in my eyes :(

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: cyanste: OH GOD YOU'RE RIGHT hahaha

Celeste: I've been fired from moderating positions on forums because I rejected the admin's advances towards me >.>

shoopuf: Yep, Portal was a nice surprise.

janey: Equal female and male characters, equal roles within games (reduce stereotypes), fair advertising

[MeeF] CyAn: Actually..

[MeeF] CyAn: it seems like Portal is an all female game, haha.

 

[Xfire] SDaria: ***** USER QUESTION *****

 

[13:51] [uwe]helen kennedy: [Xfire] Klaak: pink <3: i'd like to know how can we stop cyber harassment in a online gaming environment?

shoopuf: Heh, mewi, I had a similar thing happen.

Badazz: I am involved in gaming on many sides.> I am here as part of our community, I am here as part of the staff of my team that runs a game server and web and community

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: U CAN HAVE ALL THE FEMALE FPS U WANT BUT .....DON'T EVEN TOUCH ANYTHING NEAR HALO.....sorry but......

Musao: User answer - You can't.

{J1}: peopel need to get to know more ppl

Musao: It's that simple.

Badazz: i am here to find out more about this concept of Women and gaming

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: cyan: i didn't get that impression, but i see where you're going with that

{J1}: or get more outer activities

Badazz: and to find out how to get my IDEAs heard

janey: block buttons are great

Melanie: I would like it if males can only pick male characters and females only female ones, of course also in FPS, caus personally I don't really enjoy playing as a male character, yet I do it sometimes in MMORPS just to get less attention, it's nice sometimes to be offered things, but not just because you have a female character, especially not when you see all those people abuse it.

janey: or ignore...

Celeste: Use the same media is the best thing that can be done.

Nodgene: Maybe if genders "flags" are above player names of something, and it is detailed as part of the terms & conditions that a user MAY NOT harass the opposite gender... I mean, it's specified "No harassment", but perhaps it needs to become obvious to adapt?

Musao: I think forcing gender is a HORRIBLE idea

[MeeF] CyAn: Maybe game heads could actually start banning characters that harass others. :p

Musao: what about the female gamers that assosciate more with masculinity?

Celeste: Most games have a sexual harassment policy

Nodgene: MALES ONLY PICK MALE CHARACTERS? That'll be the end of me playing MMORPGs then :P

Musao: Or the male players that would rather assosciate with a feminine persona?

mclazyj: I would agree that forced genders are a bad idea

Musao: It would be biased and lawsuits would fly

Celeste: Most company's however do not enforce their OWN policy's

Musao: What about the transgender audience, as well.

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Musao: yeah this

mclazyj: There is an MMO game out there that requires you to send in a picture to certify your gender

Kash: I think any harrassment shouldnt be allowed, regardless of gender - I get really fed up of hearing people flaming other players for no good reason

mclazyj: not sure if that is cool

Badazz: make more clans that require both sexes to succeed

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: I KNOW HOW TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM.....HAVE A TRANSEXUAL CHARACTER......ONLY ONE CHARACTER TO CHOOSE....it sounds wrong but it just might work

janey: game dev companies need to be more female friendly: flexiworking and such

shoopuf: I'm not sure that I want to advertise it like that. I find I do get harassed more in FPS games, especially since I'm not awesome at them, so I tend to use more gender neutral names and not talk except to guildmates

[MeeF] CyAn: Mclazyj: I'd feel so uncomfortable with that... haha

☭ wMute ☭: Forcing gender leads to forcing race: this opens up a whole other barrel of monkeys

Nodgene: I actually put that as an option in my questionaire I'm doing for a University assignment... But because we're only meant to get under 10 people, a friend said he'd give me money if I found a trasngendered gamer.

 

[Xfire] SDaria: ***** USER QUESTION *****[13:53] [uwe]helen kennedy: Kash: How would you like to see games marketed to women - what would be your idea girl gamers game?

shoopuf: I wouldn't want a giant flag saying 'I'm female' no harassment' over my head

Badazz: games that have need of both things a woman would know intuitively and that gusy know intuitively

janey: female programmers are put off entering the game industry as it is highly competitive (to get in) and has a reputation for overworking people and high stress

[MeeF] CyAn: Computer science as a whole seems to be one big pot of stress

[MeeF] CyAn: Even programming websites can be stressful, ahhh

janey: nah, computer science was fun ;-)

{J1}: lol

{J1}: agreed!

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: I'd like to see the world in a decade or two, and see how much more the gamer girl demographic has increased

shoopuf: Definitely, and the industry does need reform. After EA Spouse, some things have changed there, but industry wide, it's stressful.

Badazz: puzzle and troubleshooting mixed with person against person, something that brings up a persons confidence in self and lets them take something into life from it

Celeste: How about a girl gamer game targeted for just females... and I dont mean barbie, I mean a game online that can be played by anyone but the main target is female gamers.

☭ wMute ☭: Because of outsourcing, computer science industry is gonna be even more depended, not on Norht Amrican perspectives on gender, but other societies such as India and China.

janey: agreed celeste

[MeeF] CyAn: I wouldn't really think so

[MeeF] CyAn: Maybe Korea and Japan like it is with MMOs

Musao: Unfortunately if you look at the market trends, Celeste, it won't sell :(

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Celeste: sad thing is if there would be a game like that, it would be something along the lines of barbie (ever heard of hello kitty online? or Furcadia?)

Kash: I tell you what kinda got the balance a bit-vampire masquarade bloodlines, becuase the character classes were do diverse you could play it in a load of ways, shame the game wasn't as good as the idea...

[MeeF] CyAn: Furcadia :)

 

[Xfire] SDaria: ***** QUESTION *****

 

[uwe]helen kennedy: Arent you offended at all by the ever present chest appeal?

mclazyj: I don't think that women want games specifically targeted at them

Celeste: BTW, If I cant kill in Style... I feel like I'm missing something

mclazyj: it seems to be condescending

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: I want to see a game marketed to a female ordiance but not no pink, barbie,,,flowers and cooking thing

{J1}: yes

{J1}: kinda

janey: musao not really the case... over 50% of wii gamers are female

{J1}: maybe

{J1}: dont know

{J1}: really doesnt matter

SpartanChick316: im offended

{J1}: oh

Nodgene: Why not mclazyj? Men like games targeted at them?

Badazz: boobs have been around for ages

{J1}: offended?

[MeeF] CyAn: I'm offended as a flat chested woman ;(

Badazz: who cares

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: best quote of the day: DestructoidColette: Iam not. Boobs are great.

{J1}: i meant does it matter

Kash: lol, I have a DS game about cooking, it's rubbish

Musao: But then how would you market DIRECTLY to women

SpartanChick316: yes but guys like to stare like they have never seen them

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: lol

Celeste: cyan there is alwasy surgery >:)

{J1}: ....

Celeste: jk :p

{J1}: i dont...

Badazz: I dont have boobs, playing a game character that does is kinda cool actually lol

[MeeF] CyAn: Piff, I'm Korean but not that much

Musao: Are male and female interests THAT different?

Celeste: Korean girls are cute ^^

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Its all about colombian and japanese girls.

Musao: No, they aren't. You can't market a game to specifically one gender

Nodgene: you'd need to analyise things on a psychological level, more fudimental than social concepts and faux pas'.

janey: not really... but lots of advertising EXCLUDES women

☭ wMute ☭: I'm surprised nobody's brought up the influence of Lara croft in terms of a discussion on women in gaming, since it's due to the immense popularity of Tomb Raider that opened up the doors for a lot of female main characters in gaming

Musao: Because gender roles in this day and age are intermingling, if not even reversed in some households

shoopuf: Um, games are marketed exclusively to one gender all the time

janey: afaik women want a game they can pick up/put down and not have to sit at for hours waiting to find a next save point

shoopuf: I don't see the Nancy Drew games being marketed to boys

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: wmute: i had a subtle comment about lara croft haha

Kash: eeeek

shoopuf: Not all women want that.

[MeeF] CyAn: I don't see Nancy Drew really marketed at all though

Musao: For men that enjoy a good strategy thinking point-and-click adventure

☭ wMute ☭: Pause: oops my bad

{J1}: nancy drew has a great mind

mclazyj: Yeah, how many times have we seen an advertisement with a scantily clad female that has nothing to do with the game

Melanie: I don't mind breasts so much, but sometimes they just go too far, like the dark elves in LineageII.. that really does bother me, all the wobbling when you run, and, of course the barely visible armorpieces. Sometimes it's like you're walking around in a thong with some lap of cloth dangling behind you.

janey: obviously not all do ;-)

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: its ok it was subtle haha

mclazyj: Anyone remember the ad for RC Racers

shoopuf: I do see those games marketed, but it's not big budget obviously.

{J1}: lol

[MeeF] CyAn: Wobble wobble wobble

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: Lara Croft had huge boobs and a ***** rare......Guys played tombraider more than girls I can bet my life on it

 

[Xfire] SDaria: ***** USER QUESTION ****

 

[uwe]helen kennedy: Nodgene: .... Would it be a good idea for companies to try and make games marketed to a more typical female pschology? Would that perhaps help ease a lot more girls and women into gaming? As most girls and women I've talked to or encountered in games prefer cooperation more than compeition, say. And then when they're all in, we can make games more of a mix? Or to do that to begin with?

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: What about "The Man Game"

lunaria42: I dont' mind looking for a save point for hours, as long as I've got the time.

mclazyj: it had the girl in a bikini on the beach with an RC car jumping over her

[MeeF] CyAn: I think DS games seem to be targeted at females a lot of the time

Badazz: yes

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: guy game*

{J1}: how is this related to topic?

{J1}: oh...

{J1}: right...

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: cyanste: agreed, its the small cute portable system

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: I think that game is for guys with no life

Musao: I like the DS.

[MeeF] CyAn: Who can resist Yoshi... :)

Badazz: like I said, girls are more about learning from, teaching to and organzing and troulbleshooting together without Judgement or trying to fix each others problems..

☭ wMute ☭: But Monk, a lot guys played Tomb Raider cause most gamers are male. But it certanly opened up the sheer concept of a female protagonist in a game marketed to an audience dominated by males

{J1}: i guess its just a traditon to put bikini girls in racing games

Celeste: Helen, I think styling sprites and playing cooporatively is huge thing for girls and games XD But I would like to kick someones butt every once in awhile :p

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Sexually? I can.

{J1}: sadly

Melanie: I've got a feeling that if you can get the "popular" girls interested many girls will follow.

[Xfire-TTHS] Paddy: I feel the Nintendo Wii braught alot of girls into the gaming world

janey: cooperation & problem solving games = fun

Musao: Hell, I want a DS just so I can play Nintendogs.

{J1}: yes

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: yeg

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: yes

{J1}: i think the wii did

mclazyj: I don't know if having a game designed to a female psychology would work, because what is that exactly

[MeeF] CyAn: I bought the DS just for Nintendogs at first, haha

Musao: But I love me some shoot-em-ups with as much gore as I can fit on my hard drive

Musao: All the same.

Melanie: I got my DS for Pokémon. Haha.

Celeste: Sexuality can probably get you anything in a video game... but for the price of your soul :p

[NBK]Raccoon: agreed

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: pfft, i bought my DS for Pokemon and i'm not ashamed to say it

Musao: Damn right Pause.

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: I'm 17 and male and i love pokemon gameboy games.

[MeeF] CyAn: Haha

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: WHAT NOW

[MeeF] CyAn: Nothing wrong with that!

{J1}: so do i

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: wow

SpartanChick316: games are fun, us girls like to sit back relaxe and shoot um up as much any guy

Melanie: Join the club, Pause!

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: DUDE

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: Pokemon......?

Musao: 21, male, love nintendogs and god of war.

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: really?

Musao: What now.

{J1}: i like pokemon

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Monk: hell yeah.

[Xfire-TTHS] Paddy: im 17, i used to collect the trading cards

{J1}: as a kid i watched the show alot

[MeeF] CyAn: I like me some TF2

shoopuf: The thing is there isn't "female psychology". We're all different. I'll like one thing, my cousin likes another, other girls I've known liked different genres, etc.

{J1}: i stil lhave some cards

Nodgene: pause got owned by a girl with one expression. Shows something of a subtle gender-superiority.

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: OMFG seriously?????

{J1}: yea man

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Cyanste: add me to friends list and i'll SO RAPE WITH MEDIC.

Melanie: 19 here, been playing it ever since it came out.

{J1}: its a game isnt it?

Celeste: Pfft I think its too soon to stop this debate...

shoopuf: The object is diversity not pigeonholing each other

[MeeF] CyAn: I'LL BURRRRN YOU

Kash: I inherited my ds from the bf when he got a lite, I only wanted it for animal crossing though - but I got too addicted and it had to be hidden from me...

[MeeF] CyAn: Muahahaha

{J1}: exactly

Musao: EXACTLY what my point was shoopuf - role reversal in the genders in our society

Celeste: People still make Rayman?

Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: ok....in my contry we see pokemon as for the imature people with no lives...no offence to u guys but i;m just saying,,,,,,POKEMON?????

Celeste: Isnt that a sega genisis game...

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: nice job everyone GG GL HF IRL

{J1}: wat>?

SpartanChick316: what?

Musao: I know guys that would play girlie games, and girls that want to beat my ass at some tekken

Melanie: Where do you come from then, Monk?

Badazz: thanks guys

{J1}: i love tekken

shoopuf: I've been playing Pokemon for 8 years. :)

SpartanChick316: thanks

lunaria42: What if they made another game were the character, who is a total badass, turns out to be female. How would people react to that.

Nodgene: WHOOO THANKING ESTEEMED PANELISTS!

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: woo!

[MeeF] CyAn: A badass female?

{J1}: not barbie's horses but i love tekken

Musao: Um, how about Heavenly Sword?

{AFP}Nhb93: nothing is wrong with pokemon some adults still play and its great that there is a game that reaches people of all ages

shoopuf: Thanks everyone. This was fun

{J1}: yea, thers a lot of kikass females

[MeeF] CyAn: Heavenly Sword... that chick's hair made me mad for some reason

shoopuf: Yep, I'm 27 and I've been playing for at least 8-9 years.

[NBK]Raccoon: lol

{AFP}Nhb93: that looks like a female god of war

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: I like it just because of the possiblities, that and the intellectual factor in any RPG

shoopuf: Pokemon that is

Nodgene: Like ... psychotic megalomaniac? I think girls would feel empowered and guys slightly aroused... You can't get around the fact males will chase the virtual or real females wherever.

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: aw i wanted a tshirt =(

☭ wMute ☭: the chick in heavenly sword could sell shampoo

[MeeF] CyAn: Heavenly Shampoo

{J1}: lol

☭ wMute ☭: indeed

[MeeF] CyAn: Makes your hair light and fluffy

{J1}: nice one

[NBK]Raccoon: lol

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: wow nice

Celeste: O.O

Musao: hivemind much?

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: grats celeste and pink

☭ wMute ☭: she does have rather silken and beautiful hair

[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: and everyone else

janey: congrats celeste

|̲̅p̲̅a̲̅c̲̅|: grats

{AFP}Nhb93: o its over already?

Celeste: I actually won something?

Musao: ?

{J1}: ?

janey: [22:02] [Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: The first prize winner will receive an Xfire shirt, an Xfire hat, a signed 311 CD and signed picture, and a signed copy of Jim Butcher's "White Night":

 

Celeste