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Xfire Debate Club 6th Meeting: WoW Classes
June 19th, 2007 (Open Debate Transcript)

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Welcome everyone :)

[Xfire] Supercop007: Good evening and welcome to tonight's Debate!

SaLS111: hi

BRaEn @ LT: Hi

Spencer: Hello, everyone! :D

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: hello thar

Omen: good to be here!

Musao: Hello everyone

Hellser: Hiya.

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: Hey all

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: Hey.

Bahamut: ...

ROFLMAO: Hello =)

Sherif: hey ppl

SFHS|- Zarox: Hi

Sherif: :)

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: same, great

Spencer: Something on your mind, Bahamut?

poknishpaly: hey

Kumbol: heya :)

Bahamut: Not really.

Glock: hi

-=[4LL3N]=-: hey guys

cabuss: Sup people

Bahamut: Just gotta start counting seconds

SaLS111: Sup

*BOM*COL.CrackerJam: hi all

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: sup

SaLS111: aloha all

Omen: whoa, this is indeed a lot of people!

Spencer: Just waiting for the debate to begin. :)

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: yuppers

Hellser: Yep. :)

Spencer: Lol omen, give it two more minutes.

kaigami: Yarr

SaLS111: i just have to exit WoW and get my dictionary

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: You can start debating right now if you want

Omen: haha

Duco: heya ppl

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: this is the Open Debate Room

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: Lol SaL

Omen: when does it all kick off?

NapoleanD: hey fellas

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: ok whats up everyone, you readt for a good debate

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: go ahead and debate the topic if you want to :)

Omen: ah, 4 minutes

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: Nothing much just waiting?

Spencer: Hey Mute! :D

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: alrighty so WoW teams huh

NapoleanD: just rushed back from wrestling practice to get to this lol

Omen: which is your favourite class then? :D

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: Hunter!

Spencer: I used to wrestle.

Glock: rogue all the way :D

Cruelcodex: Aloha all from Hawaii.

-=[4LL3N]=-: pal

Bahamut: Warlock.

NapoleanD: =)

SFHS|- Zarox: Warlock.

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: rogue

xipwnallx: mage

Vince (i2xa): Warlock

Duco: hunter

SaLS111: Hunter - pet + pretty good DPS

Omen: nwarlock all the way!

dedgerent: nerf moonkin druids

Hellser: Mage / Hunter. :P

.reaper: Warlock

JediMan: rogue :)

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: Warlock!

nohs: Druid

BRaEn @ LT: hunter

NapoleanD: PALADIN

*BOM*COL.CrackerJam: hunter!

poknishpaly: paly

Spencer: I was the most fit in my whole class. Lost every match.

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: rogue ftw actually :P

neffect: Rogue.

SFHS|- Zarox: nerf hunters

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: ty :D

BRaEn @ LT: hunter for fun :)

kaigami: nerf anything with dots!

ROFLMAO: I'd like to debate about the Hunter's role in Arena.

Musao: Now as far as this debate goes - will there be much discussion as to the MECHANICS of the class, or is this more a skill/talent debate? Because there are certain game mechanics I would like to address

SaLS111: roges are hard in 19

*BOM*COL.CrackerJam: HUNTER! lol

Spencer: I like mages the best.

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: Rogue all teh way perhaps?

nifos: Warrior 4tw

poknishpaly: i think the best 1 is hunter but i like paly

Omen: wow, a lot have said rogue already

Bahamut: Every class in the game has dots.

xipwnallx: frost mages are great

[DELTA]GEN._FOX(JC): hunter

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: agreed.

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: My personal favorite is the Warrior, im a pure Hack'n'Slash'er, i like to tank, in all the groups there is a tank, i like to rush in, to hit hard and to take the hits :D

Hellser: So are fire mages.

Sherif: nuff with rogues .. rogues are world first gankers

SaLS111: higher lvl rogues get , weaker they get

nifos: with the trinkey bff

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: Hunters are good

Sherif: druids are the best

Musao: @Spencer, sounds good to me

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: Hunters to

Omen: i have never bee so impressed with low lvl rogues and thoguth it worked the other way around

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: I must admit that i know Warriors are not the best class, but i like them... The greatest class imo are the Warlocks

nifos: lol

nifos: no

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: Warlock but sometimes ther quests get super hard.

SFHS|- Zarox: Warlocks > All

nifos: hunters are terrible

kaigami: nerf druids, buff hunters

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: Hunters have their own tanks

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Massive DPS... Fear... good DOT's

dedgerent: Whoever lets pally's dps is beyond me.

nifos: the best raid dps spec for hunters is the chinese farmer spec

NapoleanD: nerf hunters buff druids lol

Omen: and being a warlock main, i dont particularly like rogues right now cause of CloS! :P

xipwnallx: frost mages r good against warriors and other close ranged classes because of the frost nova that frezzes people

Spencer: I really don't enjoy hunters in the game that much.

platnex: heck no napoleon Pals are not a main anything pally is only good for solo play

[DELTA]GEN._FOX(JC): hunters rule

NapoleanD: DPS is ret spec

JediMan: lol nifos

nifos: buff druids?

Bahamut: Warlock quests are a pain in the ass, every single one of them.

nifos: are you serious

Spencer: But people like them.

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: yeah

BRaEn @ LT: hunters!!!!

ROFLMAO: In my opinion, hunter's have a really weak position in the arena. Especially 2v2. For example the pillars, a warlock + priest combination could just dot and kite them, they have a real handicap in the arena: deadzone....

*BOM*COL.CrackerJam: hunters pwn, they have their own tanks, and can DPS like nobodys business

nifos: gg 45 seconds off cc in arena

SaLS111: Hunters are good in PvE PvP both

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: yeah Hunters = Weak postition

Duco: I guess the most enjoyable are dps classes

bobz12: buff hunters in PVE they are not as good as other dps classes..

Sherif: all classes are equal !! it's just the skill everyone misses and the spells ppl don't use

NapoleanD: hunters just got buffed! lol

SaLS111: But arena is small for them.... no enough space to shoot

xipwnallx: mages are also good because of its AoE

Prophet of War: Fear is not as useful as it used to be. For some reason, players have more of a problem with DoT than they do burst damage.

Duco: lol hunter got pve buffed

vielence: anyone else think that resilence should apply to dots as well?

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: Hunters are good for PvE unfortunately not so great in PvP

Omen: okay. one issue that needs to be addressed! the warlock epic mount quest. its near impossible to get a group to get this done since TBC. it's rediculous

NapoleanD: stiill....

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: it just depends how u play a char also

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: haha yeah

Musao: I would have to say that Warriors are the hardest class to play CORRECTLY, but they are without a doubt the best class in the game if handled by a highly compotent player. They have outs for every type of crowd control, they can handle any situation, it's all a matter of being able to properly stance dance, use your cooldowns at proper times, and being properly geared doesn't hurt either

Spencer: AoE on mages is over-rated; unless you're ice, and even then, ice doesn't damage nearly as much as fire.

poknishpaly: yeah

nifos: WHAT

Hunters are good in pve

Hellser: Hey, I lost in a fight with my hunter, Hunter vs Rogue, if anything rogues should be nerfed... its not fun getting stunned every one second.

nifos: are you insane?

ROFLMAO: Indeed, in my opinion hunters should get more supportive, and less solo... That way they would be more usefull in both PVE and PVP (arena)

platnex: true, in my opinon hunters are the worst class, they cant fight for themself that have to get a minion for them to be useful

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: i mean a twink hunter cna suck if they dont know waht ther doing

SaLS111: I am hunter myself and i do great in PvP!

nifos: Look at all the top guilds dude

Bahamut: Have any other locks noticed the glitch in SP?

nohs: imo Druids are the best for versatility since you can be any role with them and are great in any situation

Glock: rogues shouldnt be nurfed

nifos: They take 1 hunter

nifos: for hunters mark

xipwnallx: frost mages are great against close ranged classes

nifos: and the extra drops

Duco: yep... and EW maybe

Glock: all u do is hunter mark a rogue

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: Yeah, I had the same. Rogues seem to be able to own anyone in a PvP

nifos: hunters are terrible

Hellser: Try that, Nifos when the rogue is right behind you stabbing at your back.

NapoleanD: yeah DRUIDS and PALADINS for VERSATILITY

Prophet of War: I do not believe warlocks are the best class. Shadowpriests consistently out DPS warlocks in both raid and PvP situations.

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: yeah Roguies pwn in Rvp

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Worst class in my opinion... the Rogues

nifos: I'm talking pve

Hellser: And your health is dropping rapidly to 50% in two seconds.

nifos: Hunters are terrible in pve

Hellser: Thats why I prefer PvE.

SaLS111: Warlocks can get pwnd by Rogue easily !

Dark Chili: Gnomes suck

xipwnallx: and frost mages slow down people such as warriors which really benifets

Omen: not worst, by a long shot. but seriously flawed imo

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: they just don't seem to be much of a threat to me...

vidal: Hellser, your solution is more stamina.

nifos: ya

Duco: but note that Nihilum raiding hunter respecced to bm and was 1st on damage meters on Grull... but he didn't help raid much so he respecced

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: yea rouges need to be nurfed bad

Spencer: Hellser brings up a good point - any GOOD rogue will start the fight with you at half YOUR health. ;)

NapoleanD: yeah

Musao: Hey hey, awesome. debate is getting underway

nifos: ya

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: And please, everyone, remember that this is a Debate ... not a Flaming Party ^_^

SaLS111: Hunters with insignia of the alliance / hord are imbas!

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: yay

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: broopp

Bahamut: Well i admit rogues kick my ass 75% of the time.

nifos: like i siad

Hellser: They arn't, they are rather good in PvE rather than PvP, I know this the hard way. The only good PvP class is the paladin and shaman which can heal and tank.

nifos: chinese farmer spec is the best dps spec

nifos: for raid dps

platnex: how about we start by actuallly lettting people know who they are?

ROFLMAO: Look at the statistics, there are almost no hunters in the top 2v2 or 3v3 Arena teams, That says something...

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: true

kaigami: Rogues are the weakest class at the moment next to hunters. The only people that want to nerf them are people that dont realise how hard it is to play one

NapoleanD: I've got almost 4000 kills with my paly on PVP, they own as tanks

*BOM*COL.CrackerJam: guys guys, calm down and lets wait for the questions to start coming

nohs: Druids are the best overal class, because they can fill any role

Prophet of War: Not at all Hellser. Shadowpriests can heal themselves whilst DPSing and have fairly good CC ability.

xipwnallx: the worst class i believe is a rogue

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: k

SaLS111: Rogues kick ass in low lvl - imbas at the start , worst at the end !

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: to a Warrior

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: No, I believe Hunters are good in PvE, crowd control and all, but in PvP they're just not fast enough. That's why Rogue have advantage. They're just in and out within seconds

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: druids arnt that good ther just mediorce becuz they spelcize in evrything

Spencer: I'm Spencer, an Amateur rank in the debate club, TTHS. Nice to meet you all. ^^

*WM*pzerofgh^®TF: shadowpriests have no good cc ability

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: chill boys

vidal: If you're not a caster class, then I have to say you really have no excuse for getting ganked by a rogue. If you're anything but a caster class, you should increase your armor, stamina and/or resilience.

NapoleanD: nice to meet u Spencer

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: In the eyes of a Warrior... i must admit that Rogues are pretty weak...

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: Hey Spencer /wave

vidal: Sometimes I think Blizzard placed resilience in there especially to be anti-rogue.

SaLS111: hunters in PvP are good - they can help killing rogue ! or just kill all

kaigami: Warriors > rogues in all specs and situations

Hellser: I respect the Shadow Priests, Prophet, they're about the only good Cloth Class that can murder with skill.. next to mages and 'locks, Holy Priests can't PvP worth of crap.

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: kaigami, agreed

kaigami: the only way a rogue can beat a warrior is with prep

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: no i think blizzard love rouges becuz they so powerful

kaigami: and thats with luck

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: yea

Prophet of War: Rogues are weak. Teh survivability of a rogue has dropped considerably since TBCs inseption

{TC} RavePirate: Or backup

Duco: I want to get pvp survival buffed :P

Prophet of War: I think it is safe to say that rogues have had their day

HEADHUNTER: i think rogues are good

Spencer: Vidal, resilience hurts me as a mage really bad. I'm into critical fire strikes, and resilience doesn't make it easy.

SaLS111: But this resilence is maximum -5% = ROgues have like 40% crit

Bahamut: World of Roguecraft is all I have to say about rogues.

Omen: shadow priests are in no way skillful when you just mind blast, mind flay SWP and so on

nifos: No

nohs: I dont know how many times ive saved the group from battle rezzing as a druid and go back to being feral

HEADHUNTER: they level fairly fast

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: there good but they are not trust worhty

Omen: vampiric embrace, rinse repeat

nifos: ROgues have changed a lot since WoR

kaigami: rogues can no longer own the burst damage with resilience and huge stamina and their CC is easily dispellable

xipwnallx: frost mages are good against raids with their forost noves so it really benifets all long ranged people

*WM*pzerofgh^®TF: 1 2 3 3 3 1 3 3 2 3 3, that's pretty much what a shadow priest is

vidal: Survivability? If a Rogue goes for the complete Arena gear set, their survivability will increase considering it focuses around resilience and stamina.

NapoleanD: yeah GP rogues aren't nearly as good as they used to be, but palys got nerfed so its harder to solo them, me personally =(

HEADHUNTER: i see your point but

kaigami: rogues are now squishier than most clothies since they cant kite

dedgerent: more like World of Warriorcraft now

Hellser: There IS a way to beat shadow priests and that is to keep your health up if your a healer, that or try to murder him before he Pyschic Screams.

SaLS111: Hunters' I.W.I.N. Button vs mages is - silencing shot

Omen: main floor is open

{TC} RavePirate: World of Castercraft tbh

NapoleanD: kool

Spencer: Hah, world of warriorcraft.

Duco: if you're mm that is SalS111

Dark Chili: World of Spamcraft

HEADHUNTER: but they do deal massive damage

SaLS111: i am MM :P

HEADHUNTER: in blows

{TC} RavePirate: World of GoldfarmerCraft

Hellser: SaLS -- no one is always a marksman

kaigami: Warriors are OP atm but they've had to endure a lot of UP to get here

SaLS111: BM are good in lvling

{TC} RavePirate: thats what its turned into around my server

Hellser: What about Beast Mastery and Survival?

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: same here

SaLS111: and not much survival

Omen: kaigami. i totally agree

NapoleanD: PROTECT PALY ^_^

Prophet of War: Shadowpriests don't need to be skillful to be effective. I think that the less skill required to play the class, the more effective it can be in its desired role.

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: I'm a BM Hunter

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: well idk

Omen: leave warriors as they are

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: Tank pet ftw

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: rouges need nurfed thats it

SaLS111: Not much Survival , and BM change to MM at 70 - well almost all !

{TC} RavePirate: buff rogues

Duco: SaLS111 but when you reach 750agi unbuffed survival becomes imba :D

HEADHUNTER: shadow preist are nice to have

xipwnallx: fire mages are also good because of its huge damage as well as damage over time, plus its fire blast are a good way to take down hp in a short time

[Xfire-TTHS] Devon`D4rk: Silencing shot lasts for 3 seconds, it requires 41 points up a tree, and it does 50% of base attack damage. Silencing shot is a joke except to interrupt one spell during a duel. If the mage is specced correctly, there's no defending against it as a hunter

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Kaigami, i don't happen to see too many Warriors on the server i'm on

NapoleanD: yeah warriors are pretty balanced, I love having them on my team too

Kumbol: Im a Fire-arcane mage and im happy xD

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Many more paladins come to my sight

Hellser: Fire / Arcane mage here, instant damage for PvE, I suck at PvP with her -- I do more better with my shaman.

NapoleanD: draenei palys ^_^

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: Warriorrs are great to have on your team as well though

bobz12: silence shot can own a mage in arenas

HEADHUNTER: warriors are good but against magic

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: dranies are terrible

Omen: warriors are very popular on my server it seems

HEADHUNTER: i agree

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: i dont like them

Omen: second most populated

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Warriors are far from being the best PvP'ers

Hellser: Hunters here, sadly.

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: Pallys are a very popular class and tend to get chosen over Warriors because they can heal themselves aswell as tank.

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: they look stupis also

vidal: A topic I'd like to bring is the Warrior class and their mace stun ability. Mace Warrior + Rogue = Class abilities completely switched. A Warrior with that Mace stun effect can sometimes stun lock better than my Rogue. My stuns will get resisted but the Warrior stuns just fine to add onto the 1000+ crits.

xipwnallx: i have a question. is it possible to do 300k damage?

{TC} RavePirate: dreneai are terrible

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: but they're not the worst

Omen: they're getting some nice crits these days

NapoleanD: I'm a Draenei supremicist: their healing is so FREAKING good as a protect paly

Musao: Ice mages make for very good pvpers with the proper amount of focus on keeping people under control.

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: but...comeon

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: We do good in PvE, we're the heart of any Raid or 5 men groups

SaLS111: I hate Paladin's Bubble heals

kaigami: exactly neffect

HEADHUNTER: dreneai are not good in my server

Bahamut: Dranei warriors are good because they are the only warriors that can heal themselves when need be.

kaigami: thats all due to BS weapons ofc

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: i mean shaman are not good either id u get down to it

Hellser: @neffect, did you ever saw a mage out DPS a warrior?

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Because all you'll ever need is... 1 Warrior and 1 Healer :D

NapoleanD: im on Fenris, I'm one of 4 good draenei palys lol

dedgerent: Full gladiator warriors with storm heralds as mace spec are such a pain as a rogue.

Omen: warrior with a healer is a force to be reckoned with in PvP

[Xfire-TTHS] Devon`D4rk: Paladins are great as healers and support heroes. However when they try to meld and adapt to become DPS heroes, they lose their necessary attributes. In raids, if you have a paladin there to DPS and side heal, you're not going to get anywhere.

Omen: not much can stop that grouping

kaigami: (brb, i know ye'll miss me)

HEADHUNTER: deffinatly

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: pallys are awesome if u know waht ur doing

SaLS111: Paladins + Shamans in raids = Ultimate buffs

Hellser: Agreed.

HEADHUNTER: yea but they get boring to play

vidal: In some cases I've seen a Mage outdps a Warrior. A Mage witgh +900 Spell Damage can do it, but then it depends on the gear.

{TC} RavePirate: most pally's I know are imba

Omen: but no real power

[]®@[]Kąнטήα |#®îÑĢ0: nobody knows what they are doing wirth pallys though.

NapoleanD: lol I only have 2k health, I'm a freaking tank with the BoK lol

[Xfire-TTHS] Devon`D4rk: Warrior + Healer in PvP is almost impossible to defeat

Sherif: wooot ppl

NapoleanD: mana *

Sherif: easy easy

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: @Devon... Agreed, they should not try to be Warriors at any point.

Sherif: let me read :P

Tolkienfanatic: Hey everyone

Hellser: Pallys + Shammy = nearly unstopable.. the only problem is that on my server, the alliance dosn't listen to each other -- thus the reason why I gave up in PvP.

Duco: I think warriors got a nice place in arena now as their damage scales a lot with gear... while some other classes just found their burst damage won't be enough for every pvper with 7k+ life

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: warlocks are always fun becuz of u can do so much

gnofear: sup guys

SaLS111: But healer in PVP never stands alive for more than 15 secs

*BOM*COL.CrackerJam: is there any way to talk to the debaters -.-

NapoleanD: lol yeah Alliance PvP: unorganized

nohs: druids can tank, dps, heal, and nuke efficiently with the proper gear and talents of course

Sherif: and skill nohs

Hellser: Guys, look at Main Floor -- worse class.

Ãymii: Thats why you protect them

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: *****FIRST QUESTION*****

What are the best and worst classes in WoW right now, from your perspective?

nohs: yes skill

xipwnallx: when would the gms ask us questions

apolloiv: Best-Druids Worst-Prot Pally

HEADHUNTER: yea healeri in pvp= not last long

foolmoron: warlock can do lots of damages

SaLS111: Druids are great

nohs: druids need the mot skill

Musao: Best- Warriors Worst-Survivalist Hunters

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: the best has to rouges atm but worst is preist

Prophet of War: I think paladins do have a place as DPS in a raid situation. They do provide some pretty heavy burst damage but I admit, they do not provide consistent damage. Personally, I woul dhave 1 DPS pally in their to provide the nice burst as well as some highly effective off healing.

[DELTA]GEN._FOX(JC): skill dominates all aspects

Ilthana | Vashbeara: druids..best and worst

HEADHUNTER: if in a high level yes warlock good

vielence: best = locks, worst hunter

{TC} RavePirate: 1st broken = shammy. 2nd = Rogue

Duco: best class: warlock, worst class: maybe shaman, dunno

vidal: Druids require the most familiarity.

Ãymii: Prot warriors can pvp with the right talents and gear ofc

Sherif: druids heal great in tree .. but they can't keep ppl on high hp ... balance do high damage with right gear and skill .. ferals are great tanks with the right gear aswell

platnex: well as I have pointed out personally I think the worst char is hunters due to the fact they are not the best all rounders and the best charecter would be probally rouges as much as I have to admit it at the moment

Bahamut: Best- Warlock Worst- Enhance Sham.

foolmoron: Hunters are very annoying

Omen: warlock are definitely a hot topic at the moment

apolloiv: I have a lock but Druids just bring so much to the table

HEADHUNTER: shaman prob worst cass

Hellser: The worse class have to be the warrior, they have to wait for their rage build up as their health picks away, thats at PvP, PvE they are 'good'.. its pretty bad a level 57 mage can almost kill a level 70 warrior.

Cruelcodex: Anyone know how to remove the spam of people entering and leaving the ROOM?

NapoleanD: Best-Prot paly Worst-Shammys

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: warlock got raped on last pathc

SaLS111: Foolmoron - right they are annoying

dedgerent: Pally DPS in long fights would be pointless.

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: they got nerfed so bad

Omen: i have a warlock main lvl 64, love it. but i suffer from annoying "noob attacks"

[Xfire-TTHS] Devon`D4rk: Warlocks are by far the best class in WoW. They have extraordinary DPS, they have a good amount of CC, and likewise have enough DoT's to practically instantly kill any class in PvP.

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: Best class Hunters, worse class I'm not sure, possibly Shamans

SaLS111: have u been in BGs VS PREmade hunter

Omen: cc isnt great on us

SaLS111: and pets

NapoleanD: as a protect paly my DPS went down 3 whole points from last patch =(

xipwnallx: i believe the frost mage is the best class since its frost mage does a fair amount of damage while freezing enimies which really helps against close ranged classes and benefit long range attackers on your side

Kumbol: There's no worst or best class IMO, there are only classes which are more vulnerable to attacks from other classes, thats all :P

[Xfire-TTHS] Avarice: Agreed. Warlocks are the best, no contest.

Bahamut: Meh, I hardly ever fear anyway so didn't hurt me that bad.

Omen: our cc causes more aggro than any other cc

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: shaman are usless jsut take the class off

Kaigami-UD Rogue: Coming from a rogue perspective, we've certainly gone through some hardship in PvP terms

HEADHUNTER: warlocks only good in high level not in beggining

Spencer: The best class, in my opinion, is the rogue. You can start the fight with half of your opponent's health down due to ambush and backstab. The worst is druids, they're more of a "jack of all trades, master of none" sorta class.

Hellser: I agree, Kumgol.

{TC} RavePirate: Rogue PvP is broken as hell

vidal: Very so Kargami, ever since BC, it's been a bit tough.

HEADHUNTER: yes i think rogue is best

Joshua Tree: Indeed

nohs: moonkin druids can take hunters

Hellser: Rogues in PvP is sad.

{TC} RavePirate: Spencer don't know what he's talking about. Play a rogue and you'll find out

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: rouges are unfair at times

Joshua Tree: I dunno

Dark Chili: yes it is

Ilthana | Vashbeara: except u can't tank well in high lvls with a druid now that they got nerfed...and u cant use innerverte/BR when ur tanking

vidal: Now with this new patch, the trinkets will make our jobs in PvP even harder.

Joshua Tree: Yeah

Hellser: All they do is stunlock you before you can even do anything.

SaLS111: Spencer - like u can do enything vs high lvls - traps ,explosions , anti-stun trinkets

{TC} RavePirate: ofc

Spencer: Could you please elaborate on that, RavePirate?

NapoleanD: yeah rogues: unfair but easy once u wear them down and get rid of their stun attacks

{TC} RavePirate: thats our job

Joshua Tree: You give up doing damage to stunlock

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: yea i meanm im lvl 45 and a 33 almsot killed me becuz of it

HEADHUNTER: people that group with a druid as a prime healer is sad

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: *****NEXT QUESTION*****

Why do you think rogues are underwhelming?

Kaigami-UD Rogue: Where-as WoW used to be "Rock Paper Scissor". Rogues being the scissor do beat paper, the casters. We no longer easily beat casters, and we no longer easily beat rock (warrior). We dont do much of anything at the moment

xipwnallx: priest i believe is the worst class because even though it can heal it takes a lot of mana and it still doesnt really heal that much also it doesnt have much offensive attacks

SaLS111: Insignia of the Alliance i do

HEADHUNTER: but perfect healers

Hellser: They arn't underwhelming I believe, they are just annoying.

[equilibrium] blackstar: what y mean with underwhelming?

Spencer: Well yeah you can trap if it's 1v1. o.o; I don't know many hunters who randomly lay traps.

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: rouges arnt under whelming ther one of the best becuz of ther noobishness

poknishpaly: preist rnt the worst class!!

apolloiv: Rogues do it from behind and from behind only. Reason they are underwhelming

SaLS111: Kiagami - World of roguecraft !

NapoleanD: rogues stun......and stun......and then palys can just bubble and piss them off lol

Dark Chili: they don't really use much mana for the stuff that they do

Bahamut: They're not Cloak ofShadows has a ***1*** Minute cooldown

{TC} RavePirate: Rogues are underwhelming due to Resiliance

Prophet of War: Class effectiveness changes from patch to patch and you cannot draw a conclusive line and say, "this class is better than this class," as it changes all the time. At the moment, however, I think that shadowpriests are still dominating the PvP side of WoW (alongside the occassional lock). PvE however is all down to the task in question adn no one class shines through in every aspect.

Duco: yep, their way of playing just makes people angry, backstabbing them in middle of battle or something

Alex|koogco: i am not so sure rogue are exactly underwhelming.. a good stunlock really works wonders

Hellser: Agree..

SaLS111: HUnters do it from far away -

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: underwhelming becuase for skilled and talented players are trying to play some class high up wihile Rogues are brining them down, did i say that ok?

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: how can rouges be bad..i mean look they can stun u and then jsut kill u quickly

HEADHUNTER: rouges have some the most best abbillities

Hellser: SaLS -- duel a rogue, seriously.

SaLS111: Hunters trap can be placed while in combat - isn't that imba

Hellser: The FIRST thing he does is go Stealth.

Kaigami-UD Rogue: The single advantage that a rogue brings is surprise (stealth) and unlimited mana (energy)

[Xfire-TTHS] Devon`D4rk: I think Shamans are the most broken class at the current moment. They have been nerfed by Blizz frequently over the past few weeks to the point that PvP is horrid on them against anybody except hunters and possibly warriors, and raids hate them because their DPS is horrible, healing is less-than-satisfactory, and buffs only affect one group

nohs: moonkins pwn in pvp to show that druids are not mediocre and druid tanks are now being more widely accepted

vidal: With the newly released patch, it allows players with the PvP Insignias to regain control of their character if they lose control from certain abilities, such as Cyclone, Sap, etc. That trinket will diminsh the significance of the Rogue class in PvP.

Duco: not really, as now it's stealthed

SaLS111: THEY CAN STUN? trinkets?

{TC} RavePirate: since they reley heavily on crits, the resiliance has screwed over rogues, but left casters in a happy position of not being attacked

platnex: can I ask you all something would you be right in aggreeing that Paladins can never be a main part of any group they are always back up players?

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: annoying at times as well if you want to me childish.

zulit: Prophet, you are talking about shadow priests, but look at holy priests

vidal: Especially in Arenas.

NapoleanD: lol rogues aren't that special against prot palys lol

zulit: They are useless in both enviroments

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: y

Musao: Rogues aren't underwhelming in the least. I feel that rogues are a bit OVERWHELMING due to the fact that a few of their cooldowns are entirely too short. If cloak of shadows was brought to 2 or 3 minutes, as per most skills of that magnitude are, and if Shadowstep were brought to a 30-45 second cooldown, then they would be more balanced in the PVP arena.

zulit: PvE and PvP

xipwnallx: i really dont prefer rogues but they are good in some ways for example its stun ability really helps against all classes

Ilthana | Vashbeara: i luv a rogue with Shadowstep...that and CoS i must say are a great reason to have them in a party (and if their LP is maxxed)

Hellser: Rogues seem to fail in PvE however..

Musao: Because honestly, no one should be able to travel through the nether every 15 seconds. It just doesn't make sense

{TC} RavePirate: Rogues have been broken since Resiliance

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: but come on rouges are good in only cearitan situations tho

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: *****NEXT QUESTION*****

Are certain classes and specs just more suited for play in an arena setting than others?

HEADHUNTER: rogues poisen, stun, and massive damage. there abviously the best

Spencer: My rogue doesn't rely heavily on crits. How about those poison rogues out there, huh? Anyone? Anyone...?

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: YES

SaLS111: Once again - Insignia of the Alliance / Horde!

Hellser: Yes.

Ilthana | Vashbeara: YES

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: hells yes

Hellser: Very.

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: lol

Musao: Very much so

xipwnallx: yes

Joshua Tree: For sure

Dark Chili: dur

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: indeed so.

Joshua Tree: lol

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: Definately

Hellser: Frost Mages are 'crowd control' even in Arenas.

NapoleanD: yeah miserable PvE, I usually have to carry them as a tank, or switch to healer for rogues =(

Kaigami-UD Rogue: definitely

apolloiv: Of course. Shadow priest are great for raids. I heard not so much for arena?

Omen: definitely

Ilthana | Vashbeara: and it aint priests

nohs: sure

SaLS111: DIspells IMMObilazing , stunning etc effects!

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: Indeedy said meedy the greedy

Prophet of War: As a caster Ifind that rogues tend to do well until they pop CloS and then they are easy mode for the rest of the fight 1v1. I am in a 3v3 team with a rogue, and he does pretty well becaus eI am usually the target but when he is targeted, his lack of armour coupled with his low life means he dies very quickly.

.☭ wMute ☭: There's always gonna be some level of friction between arenaplay and regular PVE play. People always seem to favor their style of play. The problem is, when it comes to listening to the community, somtimes developpers take into consideration those who cry loudest, rather than who has the most credible opinion.

Kumbol: Pally is the most safe class IMO, just look at plate armor, healing and wtf immune shield ;O

Hellser: Whats more fun to slow down a warrior and help your buddy pick off that annoying hunter or shaman.

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: shaman :D

NapoleanD: good point mute

HEADHUNTER: yea i never tend to play priest. they seem too long to level

Ilthana | Vashbeara: or more specifly holy/disc priests ... shadow owns in area

SaLS111: BUbble hearthing sucks

apolloiv: Hmm the more you learn

xipwnallx: i agree frost mages are great in AoE because its frost nova freezes all players in its radius with a fair damage which is great against close range enimies

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: lol ye

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: Hah true.

SaLS111: shaman with reincaration - isnt that imba !

NapoleanD: lol i LOVE it

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: i mean in arena if u know how to paly good in pvp then yea ull eb good

NapoleanD: pisses the horde off so much if I bubble-hearth lol

Omen: speccs generally are created for 3 different parts of the game. PvP PvE and arena. the only exception is warlock where affliction is viable for both pvp and pve, where demonolgy is better for arenas

Hellser: I've not yet seen a Pally Bubblehearth in a arena.

Omen: it keeps the game interestin

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: but ther are cearitan classes that do give you an advantge

Spencer: Yes, of course they are. AoE is great for 5v5 arenas, but also, what about 2v2 arenas? Not so much, leave that to melee.

HEADHUNTER: pallys are good but boring to play

Musao: I believe that as far as specs go, there are no reasons to have - elemental shamans, balance druids, prot warriors, and a couple of specific class types in the Arena, if you look to win.

Bahamut: Paladins I cannot kill because I literally have to kill them almost3 times before they will actually die.

melari: hmm i play almost all classes to learn more about them and which fits me best, still you can't play all classes if you want to raid because most guilds will only allow one main. How do you know which class will fit you best if you ahve to pick one realy at the start of the game without knowing much?

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: I have a tendancy to struggle with any class that doesn't have a tank. Which is why I prefer Hunters or Warlocks.

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: certain classes give you an advantage with what you have

[equilibrium] blackstar: pallys stil need to be nerfd

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: soo its hard to say

Omen: for arena. its brute force that wins

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: but yeah

[equilibrium] blackstar: its almost impossible to kill them as a rogue

xipwnallx: i dont use tanks im usually the attacker

HEADHUNTER: deffinatly

Omen: thats why you dont see any prot pallies or warriors

NapoleanD: yeah cause palys have stun, buffs, and bubble, as well as seals for extra damage and 1337 skills

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: not really if u know how use int than str

Hellser: I usually stand in the back as a caster / range.

SaLS111: Hunters can kite to hell guys ! traps help , concussive shot , scatter shot

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: same

nohs: balance spec'ed druids i think are mostly aimed towards pvp and are good too

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: u can out smart easy

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: easyy

HEADHUNTER: yes

Hellser: I can't handle up close PvE / PvP well, but I do so to have fun with the game.

Dark Chili: too easy

SaLS111: Gnome rogues are super for PvP cuz they have Escape artist - They cant be kited

NapoleanD: I'm prot paly, and I've owned in every BG lol

HEADHUNTER: agree

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: i can handle up Psv but just not as good as usual :D

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: warrior are simple mined and will rush when u can trap them easily

Hellser: But they have to stop for about 3 / 5 seconds, SaLS111

Omen: they can once the cooldown is on!

SaLS111: Still no traps !

Hellser: In that time, the person can Ghost Wolf / Get on a mount.. sprint can only go so fast.

HEADHUNTER: rogues are the best for up close and personal combat

Hellser: But in an Arena... well, no where to run.

xipwnallx: i dont really enjoy using the warrior but it's shouts are really good against raid bosses

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: u can look liek ur helpless and the warrior will be liek he is and rush u then u can jsut own him like a noob

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: @Head Agreed

NapoleanD: yeah i like outrunning shammys in BG's and laughing at them

Kaigami-UD Rogue: Now that warriors have their 15 second teleport, they bring everything to the table. Instant -50% healing, AoE fear and huge stamina/stun resist

Kaigami-UD Rogue: They're really the ideal class

xipwnallx: they have teleport?

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: @HEADHUNTER, a Warrior will crush a Rogue anyday of the year, sad reality for all the rogues out there.

Omen: warriors have come a long way

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: *****NEXT QUESTION****

Along those lines, for those of you who are arena players, what sort of combinations are most feared by your team?

Prophet of War: WoW is an unbalanced game. It is common knowledge, especially in 2v2, that certain team structures do tend to do well against others. For example, Warrior/Paladin 2v2 teams are highly effective and warrior/paladin/paladin 3v3 team are also fairly hard to beat. I think the unbalanced side of the game disappears in 5v5 for the most part but you still see certain group structures winning the majority of the fights.

SaLS111: Arena is probably the worst place for hunters - its very small - they cant kite - rogue can sprint to them , nowhere to run!

HEADHUNTER: nobody really WANTS to be a tank they want to be the one to bring down the creater

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: idk i never have played arena

Dark Chili: WoW needs more tacos

NapoleanD: lol

Hellser: I rarely do Arenas but I have to say...

Kaigami-UD Rogue: Mage/Rogue in 2vs2. The WILL take down my healer instantly

apolloiv: Anything, i suck at arena. PVE for me

xipwnallx: sry i never been an arena player

xipwnallx: i like pvp

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: PVE for me alw

HEADHUNTER: me neither

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: atw*

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: but araeana sounds really hard and that not for me lol

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: Exactly. Hunters are not suited for PvP play I believe

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Feared by "my" team... i'd say... Warlock, Priest, Warrior, Paladin & Hunter

xipwnallx: raiding is fun

Spencer: Hmm. I haven't had much experience with arenas, but I would try to go for a huge gankfest of attacks, like targetting one target.

Dark Chili: I'm more of a PVE guy

Kaigami-UD Rogue: Invisibility + Stealth + Kick + Counterspell = Dead healer

NapoleanD: yeah....I've yet to get to arena...so many BG fights though lol

zulit: I agree with Prophet of War at this, every team (2v2 etc) having warrior + paladin is on its way to be the best

Omen: hunters are straight up PvE farmers

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: lol a challenge is always good my friends.

Duco: I also found 2 rogues in arena kinda annoying

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: It's just too much DPS all-around

zulit: You cant choose one there to kill first

Hellser: Warrior / Pally (2vs2), Pally, Shaman, Mage (3vs3) and Pally, Shaman, Rogue, Warlock (4vs4)

Philanthr0py: Worst team i ever fought was a 4 Pally, 1 Warrior combo, bubbles and hammers everywhere

Omen: thats all i believe they were made for

Musao: 5v5 - Having a rogue, warlock, mage, warrior, and resto druid is a VERY feared combination.

Musao: Replace the resto druid with a holy paladin and it's insane.

zulit: Pala will bubble, warrior has 15k health and pala healing him

HEADHUNTER: lol

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: but a good challenge is fun but if u jsut get raped constianly then no its not a channlge ot fun

HEADHUNTER: yes it is

nohs: resto druid and warrior imo

SaLS111: Ignoring the fact hunter are not for Arenas , they pwn in WSG / AB

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: its fun to get raped

Hellser: With Rapid Fire, yes.

Omen: any healer with a warrior is worth being scared at

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: thats how you learn bro

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: and get good :D.

HEADHUNTER: hunters not for arenas they for quests

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: what gettign raped

nohs: no not priests and a warrior

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: @Musao, agreed 100%

Dark Chili: by getting raped?

Musao: The old concept of crowd control via games like Dark Age of Camelot - lock down as much of your opposing group as possible with CC, and kill one at a time, healers to dps, to tanks.

Prophet of War: My 5v5 team consists of a priest/pally/rogue/shammy/lock and as far as we can tell, that is a fairly effective combo. We haven't really done any hardcore arena yet but we have tested the combination

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: no thats hoy u get mad and break ur game

NapoleanD: yeah I'd have to agree with the warrior/paly combo on 2v2......or in any PvP or PvE event for that matter

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: you have to get raped hard in the ass a couple 100m times before raping others in the ass.

xipwnallx: i hate warlocks because thier pets are like stronger that the actual player

Jp loves VB :: lower lvls shud have fastewr lvling

Kumbol: Im in 3vs3 arena team and also in 2vs2 and in both we fear mainly unkillable Pallys and some more killable Shamans

Prophet of War: we also have another shaman we are thinking about swapping in for the rogue

SaLS111: HUnters are great for PvE - THey solo group Qs and Feign death Helps a lot in PvE

HEADHUNTER: keep the rogue

xipwnallx: i dont agree

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: well i know where ur coming from kahona but yea i guess in some terms ur right

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: with?

xipwnallx: with the pve hunter

xipwnallx: but

Spencer: Feign death also surprisingly tricks people in PVP, too. >_>

SaLS111: Why not?

Omen: xipwnallx common misconception. our pets are very easy to take down if you just focus a few seconds to them

SaLS111: LoL

xipwnallx: hunters are great for pvp

Prophet of War: the rogue does fairly well but as I said before, his lack of life and armour makes him easy kill for 4 dps teams

Omen: felguard being the hardest

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: Yeah, however some do catch on with that and own the Hunter.

platnex: welcome ming, I must say I really enjoy the website

HEADHUNTER: hunters only good for quests

SaLS111: Hunters are great for PvP , PvE both

Duco: hunters are great for bgs, not so much for arenas

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: yes pet and demons are easy to take out of the picutre

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: hmm in terms.. only a master of WoW would sit down for the first time and start raping. is that fair enough?

xipwnallx: i might be just noob but warlock's pets own me

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: if u know wat ur doing

Spencer: One time I tricked these folks with /lay, it was a good show. I'm a mage. :P

Hellser: Shamans should be more loved, its the person who HANDLES the shaman that makes them great, you have about 20 totems to put down and you have to think fast or else your group / arena team will get killed.

NapoleanD: yeah hunter pets in PvP: almost worthless. I can usually just run right past them and stun the hunter

Prophet of War: Enhance shamans are not worth my love

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: yes kahona that is...in fact i liek that..lol

nohs: from what ive seen moonkins are pretty good opponents

HEADHUNTER: hunters and pets not for pvp, only good for quests

Duco: I, however agree that shamans could be buffed a bit in PvP... I find them so easily kitable, even if they can heal a lot (resto), you just outrun them

Bahamut: BM hunter are hard for a warlock to beat we cant get the pet off of us so we're stuck getting dazed and concussion shotted while the pet eats us.

SaLS111: Why pets are worthless? They are more likely being annoying !

ROFLMAO: Where can we suggest questions for the Main Floor?

Omen: i would say we're useless without our pets. but thats not true. what's true is that it'll be a lot esier for you with teh pet out of the equasion

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: a true master would lol

xipwnallx: actualy pets are great for pvp

Spencer: I wasn't aware it WASN'T the person behind ANY class. I've yet to see a class that auto-plays for you.

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: lol only I btw.. only I :P

xipwnallx: very strong attack

NapoleanD: lol tanks run over hunter pets

xipwnallx: and a great distraction

platnex: rofl they just choose them at random I belive

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: w/e kahona..lol

Duco: And I, although I'm hunter, demand pvp bm nerf :P

nohs: pets get in my i just hibernate and rape the unter

Omen: definitely

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: you can suggest question for the main floor during the question portion, which is the last 15 minutes of the debate. =o)

SaLS111: Bm hunters are great Vs Casters ! BUt almost all BM become MM at 70

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: ha. joking but its rare >_> >_>

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: Pretty much. They're good against mobs that can't think XD As soon as you pit a Hunter against a player who can play their class well then they've pretty much had it.

Prophet of War: I think elemental and resto shamans are fine for PvP but there does need to be some love given to the ehancement shamans. IT is a good tree and it is ashame to see it go to waste

HEADHUNTER: a worrior could take down a hunter pet with ease

SaLS111: BM = lvling

Hellser: Spencer, its the person behind the character who makes them great, again.. if you don't know what you are doing you will fail at the fight.

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: indeed it is...

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: but at least its fun

Spencer: I know, Hellser. =o I just said that.

xipwnallx: when i say pet i mean the warlock's

Hellser: You can be the best warrior but you will suck at being a mage.

Cruelcodex: ***Question-- How do you feel about the evergrowing concern about the "Tank Crisis". Servers are having harder and harder time finding tanks for heroics and main tanks b/c alot of warriors rerolled due to constant nurfs.

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: True @ Hellser

NapoleanD: BM hunters are good against basically anything =)

Hellser: Oh, heehee :)

apolloiv: Fear, Mortal striike

Kumbol: all types of Huntes are hard to beat by Mages, they can trap us, silence shot us, etc etc and we cant simply nuke them coz they are just shotting too fast to cast anything

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: *****NEXT QUESTION*****

There are a lot of class abilities that get complaints in PVP -- Cloak of Shadows, Cyclone, and Mortal Strike among them. Do you think that there are any really make-or-break Arena abilities?

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: Yes. thats all

zulit: CoS isnt that much of a problem

SaLS111: Shadowmeld x]

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: i think they should limit wat abiltys u can use in arena

Prophet of War: I don't think there is a tank crissi on my server. What we are dealing with is a lack of priests. There are hundreds of paladins but no priests. Where have they all gone?

HEADHUNTER: yes

xipwnallx: frost nova

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: :D

zulit: But MS and Cyclone are really annoying

Spencer: I haven't really seen any problem with tanks on my server, we have pallies, too.

HEADHUNTER: withoute doubt

vidal: Cyclone can no longer be complained about.

Dark Chili: I haven't really seen any

Kaigami-UD Rogue: Mortal strike. Its been left as it is and forgotten for too long. Currently mortal strike is a massively game changing ability

Omen: well CloS in its current state i believe is vastly overpowered

nohs: frost nova for sure

HEADHUNTER: cyclone is good

Ilthana | Vashbeara: lol, i nvr have a hard time getting tanks...unless i'm not ON my tamk

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: Priests seem to be difficult to get a hold of on almost all servers

[USMC]LightSol: Priests are realy lacking lately :(

Bahamut: On Gul'dan server we have no tanks and no healers,

vidal: Again, the new patch trinket dispells it.

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: its too hard to watch the main floor lol

NapoleanD: lack of priests: definately noticable on my server, but no real abscenese of tanks

xipwnallx: frost nova frezzes ppl close ranged ppl gets pissed of

HEADHUNTER: priest lack all the time

Duco: I think most CC abilities can also mean win or loss for the team

HEADHUNTER: yes

Musao: Yes. Cloak of shadows make or break, cyclone does, lay on hands, divine protection, death coil. These are all abilities that make it very difficult in the Arena.

platnex: no, as if you have a team that actually plays as a team almost everything can be debuffed and/or countered, its all about your team (which is terrible in Wildhammer EU)

Spencer: Cyclone is a nice ability for warriors, but again I'm not much of an arena guy.

zulit: Lack of holy priests, not shadow one

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: priests lack sometimes but you need them duewd.

zulit: s

[USMC]LightSol: priests might lack because its quite hard to start no?

Ilthana | Vashbeara: and i have no problem getting a priest (when i'm on my priest) its just when i'm on my other chars that i get problems

Prophet of War: So that question should be changed to, "the Tank Crisis is a lie. Do you want more healers?"

Kaigami-UD Rogue: Mortal strike was okay in vanilla WoW but in the times of arena, 50% buff/debuff/change to ANYTHING is a MASSIVELY gamebreaking ability

SaLS111: Sap u in Arena sucks !

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: lol yahh @ that

vidal: From a Rogue perspective, the only class that will have a tough time with Cloak of Shadows will be the Priest class.

Spencer: Lol @ prophet.

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: priests in my eyes are useless agiaisnt a felhunter

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: More healers would be great!

Hellser: Cyclone / Frost Nova is a GREAT way to stop a person dead in them tracks, blink past them, turn around, Sheep, Presence of Mind, Pyroblast, your buddy comes up and hits him in the head, fireball, flameblast... if the person is a pally, he'll heal and go afster the mage -- by then, your mana is gone. >

vidal: I've seen Warlocks and Mages works around it just fine.

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: no shit More healers would be great, thats half some ppl's game.

Omen: deathcoli is really underpowered if you ask me. it grants 2 seconds of aggro freeness. possibly enough time to get a fear in, but we onyl use it for the healing really

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Mortal Strike is perfect... Warriors can not Heal themselves... They can't cast a Fear Effect... We can't bubble ourselves... We cant hide... We cant run faster... why wouldnt we be able to prevent them from gaining the full potential of their healing

HEADHUNTER: sap is the best

xipwnallx: i agree frost nova is great

Hellser: Go after*

Ilthana | Vashbeara: speaking of priests, they need to change the NE priest racial to something better. IMO

HEADHUNTER: rogues are the best

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: priests in gernral are annoying and dumb

Dark Chili: amen

xipwnallx: yep

HEADHUNTER: yes

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: if they could just heal over and over as we're trying to kill them without having a fun to cut it in half

nohs: yes

Prophet of War: Starshards is a brilliant racial :o

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: I would play a healer, but after some of the things I've seen other classes say to priests it doesn't surprise me people don't want to play them.

HEADHUNTER: no doubt

NapoleanD: lol my guild leader is a priest....

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: we wouldnt be able to do anything

Prophet of War: Spec disc and you can own with starshards in PvP

xipwnallx: healers r boring and not very helpful

zulit: A lot of guild has priests as their GM or one of the leaders

xipwnallx: too much mana

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: i mean hey can i have a soul stone evry 30 min no why dont u quit dying so much noob

Prophet of War: just stand at the back and spam it after applying your dots :-)

zulit: People who plays priests usually care most about guild

Hellser: I would play my priest more if he can do more PvP damage, it kind of sucks when you can't fight a bloody warrior.

platnex: xip where would you be without a healer ask that

HEADHUNTER: healers are boring to play and lack in everything

zulit: because they choose class to heal others

xipwnallx: yep

xipwnallx: yep

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: or they can be slefes

Joshua Tree: Give Ne priests a racial like... Numchuck throw

HEADHUNTER: y heal when kill

NapoleanD: lol healers "aren't helpful"? I guess you play Alliance PvP too much lol

Ilthana | Vashbeara: ok, without a healer in raids and groups, u all would DIE

SaLS111: Warrs are worthless without healers - at leasts raids : P

Musao: The main problem with Death Coil, however, is that the mechanic for it is a HORRIFY, and not a Fear. This makes it unbreakable, and with the fear mechanics already as broken as they are (I have taken 50% of my life in damage before having a fear wear off, and on the occasion, I have taken 100% of my life before it wears off). The mechanics alone make for skills like that to be imbalanced in the Arena and pvp in general.

Omen: healers are very effective in pvp, but there's a massive amount of people who dont want to bother with them

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: dude you need Healers, and they dont lack in Everything

Kaigami-UD Rogue: Personally, i just want to 5 box a frost mage team using one keyboard and become ranked #1 in the world. Press frostbolt, change target, repeat then win!

platnex: High five to that Headhunter

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: and dont heal any one but there self

xipwnallx: yea i play on alliance

vielence: i play a 70 blood elf paladin as my main and i enjoy healing quite a bit

Omen: there's a massive issue about pvp healers

[USMC]LightSol: healers are needed

[USMC]LightSol: but its realy hard

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: yes NEEDED.

Hellser: I played on the Horde, best PvP ever.. I was the "Defense Leader" before the twinks started to come in -_-;

[USMC]LightSol: to get to lvl 70

nohs: tranquility is a great pvp heal

[USMC]LightSol: and boring

vidal: I have yet to not run into a BE Paladin that is NOT a healbot.

xipwnallx: never played a blood elf r they good?

HEADHUNTER: pallys are good but boring to play

Ilthana | Vashbeara: however, when a prot pally out heals a priest, then we have problems

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: tranquility is prob one of the best..

[USMC]LightSol: unles you go your whole game with a party ^^

nohs: yes

Prophet of War: There is nothign wrong with deathcoiul

NapoleanD: lol prissy little blood elves....they need to move over to the BIG BLUE COWS OF WoW lol

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: pallys have it cover elim preits

Kumbol: Shadow priests are also hard to beath by a mage if they attack first , all magic curses + fear are making us a bit useless against SP

Omen: it takes a certain type of person who ENJOYS healing to acctually do it. but there aren't many out there it seems

SaLS111: More priests change to shadow

nohs: aggroes everything though

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: *****NEXT QUESTION*****

About the trinket changes -- which classes will be hurt the most by those? Will the new trinkets lead to a major revamp in PVP strategy?

xipwnallx: im noob who uses death coil

Prophet of War: Fear on locks is fine. Fear on priests need attention

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: Healers don't tend to come around often because if all the other players die they tend to get the blame. even if they tried their best.

platnex: I disaggre headhunter, there are indeed a bit boring however I feel that pallys are good for solo

melari: one good way to get healers is be polite if they help and not cuss them out because they don't do things the way you like

vidal: Rogue.

Omen: WARLOCKS

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: not sure actually : /

[USMC]LightSol: Rogues will be hurt mostly ithink

Kumbol: Hunters

Omen: we stand to lose all of our CC

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: warlocks

.reaper: warlocks

HEADHUNTER: hunters

HEADHUNTER: warlocks

Dark Chili: Rogues will get messed up

[USMC]LightSol: Rogues and warlocks

Kaigami-UD Rogue: Rogues rely on their CC's to win. A rogue without CC's is a rogue without a chance. Unfortunately rogues will lose the most to this change

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: Rogue! and Hunters maybe.. even Warlocks!!

xipwnallx: whats trinket??????

NapoleanD: yeah i'd say rogues

Musao: Druids are going to be hurt quite a bit by the trinket changes.

Omen: the only cc we have will be gone in one push of a button

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: dno :P

Hellser: I haven't seen the trinkets, but I have to say hunters..

[USMC]LightSol: hunters get hurt by anything

Joshua Tree: rogues aswell

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: i mean my warlock...is fien but yea...i mean ill get raped now

Spencer: Lol I don't think they're going to COMPLETELY CRUSH the strategy of teams, but I could definitely see rogues and warlocks being hurt. Rogues more IMO.

xipwnallx: whats trinket????????????

Bahamut: As a lock I am just glad that since I'm going dest when I hit 70 I can seduce rogues and actually get away from them.

[USMC]LightSol: since everything is a hunter weapon/trinket

Hellser: Hunters don't get really good trinkets.

Kaigami-UD Rogue: A Rogue without CC's is a nerfed warrior. Simple as that

Omen: stunlock rogues will also suffer as a consequence

SaLS111: What is this trinket change?

Kumbol: PvP Trinkets ;p

SaLS111: oh

SaLS111: the resilencing?

vidal: My Rogue is in a 2v2 team of two Rogues. We use Sap/Blind as the main forms of crowd control. Now that people can break out of those, it will be tougher to handle opponents in Arenas.

Kumbol: and un-fearing, unsheeping etc

NapoleanD: amen

Musao: HOWEVER - I feel that these trinkets are not going to be used very widely due to the fact that things such as Insignia of the Horde were outdated even in pvp by counterparts found in end-game dungeons.

SaLS111: Class Charm Fear Stun Root Slow Polymorph

Priest X X X

Mage X X X

Warlock X X X

Druid X X X

Rogue X X X

Shaman X X X

Hunter X X X

Paladin X X X

Warrior X X X

Prophet of War: I think the new trinket changes is simply a sign that Blizzard are finding it hard to balance the classes in PvP with the introduction of Arena. It will hit rouges very hard indeed and druids will be kicking themselves. Paladins got off lightly.

Hellser: Uhh? O.o;

Spencer: Wow. o.o; Cool graph.

Dark Chili: isn't that chart from Wikipedia?

Hellser: That seemed like a copy / paste, no offence. :P

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: yes

Spencer: XD CHILI

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: lol

Spencer: I lol'd.

SaLS111: lol

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: copyright!!!!!

SaLS111: yeah XD

Bahamut: By the way sap needs a nerf. I'm sick and tired of runing through a neutral town and getting sapped. Guards should aggro off of it.

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: but good job tho

Dark Chili: WIKI VIOLATION!

SaLS111: As of patch 2.1.2.6803 PvP trinkets dispel everything that cause loss of control of your character, including but not limited to stuns, cyclone, death coil and traps.

Hellser: Thought you arn't suppose to copy / paste..

zulit: Well, priests charm is most useless spell ever in WoW mechanics :)

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: wiki will have ur soul now

.reaper: isn't that chart outdated?

NapoleanD: paladin charm is talent based, that should be changed...

zulit: except for one boss fight in entire game

HEADHUNTER: yup

Omen: its basically eliminating CC in PvP

Hellser: Anyways..

Kumbol: exactly

HEADHUNTER: anyways....

Omen: they should just disable any pvp cc if they want that

Hellser: *Waits for another good question :)*

dodiloda: What is the best class for 1vs1 PvP?

Omen: the only reason we have it is for pve atm

HEADHUNTER: yes

Omen: warlock :P

SaLS111: how to raice ur rank

vidal: In my honest opinion, with this buff to the trinkets, Paladin bubbles in Arenas should have been nerfed.

Hellser: 1vs1, dodiloda?

Hellser: Any.

dodiloda: yes

xipwnallx: frost mages r good pvp

Hellser: Again, in a Duel, its how good the person is..

HEADHUNTER: rogue

Hellser: 70 warrior vs 1 mage, who wins? :P

xipwnallx: MAGE

Dark Chili: lvl 70

Hellser: xD!

Dark Chili: dur

Omen: frost mages are very good tactical pvp. but require a lot of skill and knowldge to play properly

zulit: Well, pala bubbles are part of the game. They make 2v2 and 3v3 very hard though

SaLS111: Loks - no1 will bother them while Fearing unlike when 2v2 or more

Spencer: Mage!

HEADHUNTER: MAGE

Kumbol: Paladins's bubble should be permanentely removed :F

SaLS111: but MAGE

Musao: The warrior should, by all means, win that fight.

zulit: Because when you nuke paladin, he will bubble and he is sage

xipwnallx: frost nova=ownage

Hellser: Hold on now.

Hellser: Hold on.

Hellser: Did you guys EVER played a Frost Mage?

Spencer: Frost nova and blink, I don't see the problems here.

NapoleanD: paladin bubbles in arenas are just as effective as rogues stealthing, mages teleporting, druids and shammys shapeshifting, and warlocks fearing: its a part of the game

Prophet of War: I don't think it will affect locks as badly as they think it will. You see, the panic about deathcoil being broken is un-need. The diminshing returns on fear are more valuable than they are on deathcoil as deathcoil can only be used ever 2 mins and fear can be recast (and instant cast depending on spec) time and time again. 1 horror effect V 2 fear effects. I know where my trinket is going ;-)

xipwnallx: i have

zulit: when you try to zerg other classes .... well, one paladin can easily outheal incoming damage

xipwnallx: it owns

Musao: My main is a 70 frost mage.

Omen: i have also

SaLS111: but for MM hunter and silencing - np

Hellser: I tried a frost mage, GREAT class but I can't 'go all out' with my spells.

xipwnallx: me too main=70 frost mage

HEADHUNTER: frost mage rock face

Hellser: I missed being a fire mage so I went fire.

Hellser: .. Now I'm regretting it.

xipwnallx: lol

NapoleanD: lol

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: ...

SaLS111: ress talents

Omen: frost>fire

Kumbol: :D

HEADHUNTER: lol

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: lol so whats goin on

Hellser: I will, SaLS.. but meh..

Musao: However I feel that warriors, with a highly compotent player behind the wheel, can outclass a mage in pvp one-on-one, mainly due to the inlaid effects of their skills/talents

Omen: arcane>....

Hellser: Arcane is Mana Control

NapoleanD: I'm hearing arcane is where its at from guildies....but I'm not so sure

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: so amy windows lol

SaLS111: All is about skills

HEADHUNTER: i suppose

Hellser: Frost is Crowd Control and Fire is full out damage... at the cost of alot of mana.

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: idk warlock skills get retarted

Omen: warriors also require a lot fo knowledge of your class

HEADHUNTER: yea

Musao: Stance dancing and proper blowing of cooldown-based skills (berzerker rage, intercept stun, intimidating shout) will give the warrior the upper hand.

Bahamut: And also speaking of totems they need to fix Grounding totem I have to cast every dot twice so it will actually hit the shaman, and by that time I'm usually dead.

HEADHUNTER: warlocks skills get real crazy

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: i mean the ensalve thing is kinda stupid

Ilthana | Vashbeara: except for RoS...only good skill for a warlock at high lvl

Omen: that issue still hasnt been addressed?

SaLS111: and lazy

Omen: yikes

HEADHUNTER: thats true

NapoleanD: warlocks have like 120434 fears lol

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: i mean u get a powerful then then itll kill u lol

Kumbol: actually I think that fire mage is a much better than frost mage

HEADHUNTER: lol

Hellser: Two I think, Nap. :P

NapoleanD: lol i know =)

[USMC]LightSol: warlocks have 3 fears

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: ye fire pwns grost. sry lol

xipwnallx: fire mage does damage over time

Hellser: Kumbol, it is in a way.

[USMC]LightSol: i think

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: frost*

[USMC]LightSol: the mass fear

Bahamut: Warlocks have 3 fears

[USMC]LightSol: 1 person fear

Hellser: Frost however is good for me, I had more mana to handle with.

xipwnallx: mages are bad against mages

[USMC]LightSol: and instant fear ^^

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: yes locks have 3 fears

Omen: fear is really not as op as everyone thinks. after 3 fears you become immune

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: meh its still alright

Omen: and ms warriors are immune anyway

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: *****QUESTION THAT PASSED A LITTLE WHILE AGO****

Do you think that Ret can ever be made viable in end-game, and should it even be viable?

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: Almost everyone I know went Frost mage apart from my mum who plays a fire mage

xipwnallx: arcane is really strong but lots of mana

Prophet of War: Fire spec is where it is all at as far as I can see. High damage, hgih crit rate? I'd prefer that to a chest of CCs. Arcane is good, but far to stationary for my liking. I prefer the high damage associated with fire spec. Maybe a fire/frost combo woul dbe my perfect spec

Omen: no

Spencer: Ret...?

Bahamut: ONly way a warlock has insta fear is going deep in affliction tree.

HEADHUNTER: mage vs. mage= not good

NapoleanD: Ret......what? paly talent?

vidal: Yes.

Omen: it shoudl be viable, but i dont think it ever can

[USMC]LightSol: Retribution?

Spencer: Oh.

NapoleanD: meh it sucks now

Hellser: Retribution.. it was good.. Once.

Cruelcodex: t

Alex|koogco: as said on tha mmain floor.. all specs should be viable.. if nothing more then for some psecial encounters

zulit: Retribution paladins lack damage

Musao: I think that Ret is a good tree.... but it just needs to be made a slight bit more appealing to players

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: Yeah it should for sure

[USMC]LightSol: retribution is realy useles now

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: idk ret is idk..lol

Hellser: Protection seems to out damage Retribution pallys.

Spencer: Yeah lol it kinda sucks. =x Nerfed a tad by just existing.

zulit: I tried once 2v2 arena, shadow priest + ret paladin

Omen: the dps is just too inferior and they would only be there as a support class

HEADHUNTER: retribution only good once

dedgerent: LOL

dedgerent: tiz just owned ming

Hellser: the MORE you hit a prot pally the MORE they can go '3 hit you in the face'.

zulit: and it was useless .. every other class has better dmg than this combo

Omen: and that can be done in holy, cupled with healing, no loss

xipwnallx: **question**debatox what class r u?

HEADHUNTER: shadow priest good

NapoleanD: yeah crits are nice, but protect is where most of my guildies with palys are becoming now

nohs: i think all talent trees for every class should be balanced

zulit: and only think ret pala has, is repentance

zulit: which kinda sux when you compare it to sheep etc

HEADHUNTER: ok

xipwnallx: woah

[USMC]LightSol: i agree on that, the skill trees are kind of unbalanced lately

Musao: Such as the fact that holy has a HEAVY appeal for end-game raiders and arena healers, and even spell damage paladins. Then Protection paladins are always good to have around for offtanking and their skills are very nice to have in pvp. Retribution paladins, however, need a slight damage increase.

Glock: everyone says that rogues r overpowered, but have u ever watched a rogue take on multiple enimies, its doesnt work well

NapoleanD: eh, the multiple attacks and blocking talents present in protect are 5x better though

HEADHUNTER: yea i suppose

SaLS111: btw..how to raise ranks

Omen: prot pallies are nice endgame farmers with the AoE method

Prophet of War: Retribtuion spec should be given a bigger passive DoT capacity. Meaning that paladin abilities have CoH to leave DoT on the target. That way, ret paladins can be given a fair chance to do DPS and also do some off-healing aswell. No - I don't think they should be a pure DPS spec. Off-hela plus average dps for ret

[USMC]LightSol: Rogue

[USMC]LightSol: is overpowered agains 1 person

Hellser: Blizzard is trying their best to make the game more playable but in the process they are leaving the other classes out -- Rogue for an example.

dedgerent: LOL

xipwnallx: new question yet?

dedgerent: ming is so stupid..

NapoleanD: lol

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: rouges need nurfed!!!!!!!!!!

HEADHUNTER: tanks not fun to play, ppl only want to infflict massive damage, so they turn to rogues

Glock: i dont agree

Hellser: This isn't a flame war this is what my opinion is.

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: rouges can jsut almost take on anyone

[USMC]LightSol: rogues just go in there,kill,take flag and runaway

nohs: boomkins need a cc

HEADHUNTER: yes!!!

Prophet of War: I don't think I can think of a palce for ret paladins at the moment come to think o fit :s

[USMC]LightSol: rogues 1v1 can as that dude said take on anyone

Bahamut: Only problem I have with rogues is their CoS needs a longer cooldown and sap should aggro guards.

Cruelcodex: There is a common issue that warriors become overgeared and extremely ineffective in PVE. An example is a warrior with T4/T5 entering a heroic as a Tank. The warrior has such good gear that he cant generate the amount of rage to hold agro against equally geared dps classes. Why should warriors have to take off their hard earned gear to do better ??

Hellser: Agreed.

Dark Chili: agreed

Omen: ret pallies are good for pvp. thats it

HEADHUNTER: agree

[USMC]LightSol: agreed

Kaigami-UD Rogue: Thats a bug bahamut

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: Agrees 100%

NapoleanD: tanks are fun as heck! you get healed (with good allies of course) and you get to lay back and relax as the DPS take care of the dirty work

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: a Rogue that's within 5 levels of me has never killed me as a Warrior so far

Omen: nice burst. full stop

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Never, ever.

[USMC]LightSol: its anoying that they sap you

vidal: Rogues can take on anyone with the exception of well-geared Warriors.

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: congrats

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: lol

[USMC]LightSol: yes

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: exactly

Spencer: Lol napolean, nice thinking. Agreed.

HEADHUNTER: yes rogues good

[USMC]LightSol: warriors are the only class they cant take on 1v1

SaLS111: rogues cant take on skills

Cruelcodex: ***Question) There is a common issue that warriors become overgeared and extremely ineffective in PVE. An example is a warrior with T4/T5 entering a heroic as a Tank. The warrior has such good gear that he cant generate the amount of rage to hold agro against equally geared dps classes. Why should warriors have to take off their hard earned gear to do better ??

Hellser: Umm..

Bahamut: If its a bug why has it been in play since sap was implemented

Omen: good rogues can take on anyone, without exceptions

Omen: any class can

Hellser: You arn't the big guy, Cruel >

HEADHUNTER: at its job

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: rouges are good to a point

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: *****SIDE QUESTION*****

minglb: what is there to be said about PVE when all the contents have already been cleared?

Hellser: Agreed.

Omen: wow is getting more and more business like

HEADHUNTER: agree

HEADHUNTER: lol

NapoleanD: lol ROGUES are good at being ROGUES.....right lol

HEADHUNTER: yes

dedgerent: I've always found warriors in such gear too tank just fine.

SaLS111: cyz blizz loves nerfing tanks to make raids harder

Spencer: You ask me why they should, that is the question? Well they shouldn't... something msut be done.

Ilthana | Vashbeara: shite, as long as he can GET rage, its all good

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: yes it is

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: lol notihn to say

Hellser: Contents such as?

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: all

Hellser: Ah.

Omen: nothing

NapoleanD: lol idk either....

Hellser: xD

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: *****NEXT QUESTION*****

By far, the class that's had the most arguments about being underpowered in PVE recently is the shaman. They feel that they don't have a defined role in endgame and cannot DPS or heal as well as other classes. Do you think the shaman complaints are valid? Does the class need fixing?

Omen: go to pvp then :P

vidal: A well specced rogue can take on any class. Put a Rogue up against a well-specced Warrior with good gear, and the Rogue will be the one getting stunlocked the most, especially if the Warrior resists the Rogue's stuns.

zulit: Shamans = restoration for sure

Riley: **QUESTION** Why Should a "Pure" class (Priest) be more viable with different specs than a "Hybrid" (Pally) and what can be done to fix this?

Hellser: They ARE valid.

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: some rixing for sure... could be some changes

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: no they need to drop shamans and never bring them back

xipwnallx: shamans r okay

Prophet of War: There has to be a place for the warriors with lower grade gear to do their job, right? I mean...yes...a tier 4 warrior tank should be a good tank AT THAT LEVEL. That is my opnion on the matter. They got tier 4 so they could tank at that level.

HEADHUNTER: shamans onlly good to a point

NapoleanD: Shamans should be fixed.....I've seen 60's that have trouble in low level areas lol

Hellser: Shamans are starting to LACK in DPS, I can't even win against a priest 'till the priests have been nurfed to almost god like.

SaLS111: They are valid for sure ! they are hybrids between priests / rogues but non of them

Bahamut: Shamans as elemental are good dps but they oom too much.

Alex|koogco: in my personal experience.. shamans does a good healing job in our raids.. (i am apriest) so iam not sure they need anything more..

Omen: at least enhancement shamans get into raids. ret pallies hardly get to put a say in

Spencer: They're valid, but it depends on what your talents are in. Restoration is nice, but I think they could use a little more offense. Too defensive.

.☭ wMute ☭: Whether it's WoW or any other game, if there's a specific class that lacks oomph and a defined role, and the fact that people might be spending 100s of hours on that one class, then it'll surely require fixing or many will be.... angry.

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: shamans are poser of other calsses liek a druid

[USMC]LightSol: Shamans are ok in raids

Musao: I feel that shamans are very outclassed in endgame. They are outhealed as resto, they are out-dps'ed in melee by their melee counterparts, and they are out spelldamaged by their casting counterparts. The class trees need more appeal and overall they need to be taken down by the dev team and given heavy consideration

HEADHUNTER: lol

xipwnallx: the shaman should be availible to all races

Hellser: Before that, I was good in PvP in WSG, now I'm the lowest in damage.

[USMC]LightSol: but if there are good priests

[USMC]LightSol: and tanks

zulit: Shamans are much better healers than priests and druids altogether

[USMC]LightSol: they are not realy needed

xipwnallx: yep

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: I don't know about End-Game stuff, but i've played with Shamans many, many time and some of them deal great ammounts of damage, nice DPS, Totems are always good to have anywhere you go too.

Alex|koogco: also they can restore mana for tir aprty or give other very nice buffs.. wich gives a reason to bring shamans

zulit: paladins owns all though

NapoleanD: YEP

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: no

NapoleanD: ll

HEADHUNTER: shamans not needed at all

NapoleanD: lol

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: loll

Omen: shamans dont seem viable for much these days. back a while ago they were the unrivaled masters of pvp with windfury. which quickly went down the tip

HEADHUNTER: pallys good but boring to play

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: shamans cant tank worht a crap all the y do is summon totems the=at look tretarded

[USMC]LightSol: Shamans are not realy needed in raids

Bahamut: They need to nerf the grounding totem.

xipwnallx: i never been a shaman

HEADHUNTER: shamans dont tank

[USMC]LightSol: theyr good pvpers

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: lmao @ that

Joe: Shamans suck fun to play but suck

Omen: shamans never tank

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: Perhaps Shamans should be traded for a brand new class all together

Hellser: What they should do for the shamans is give them a talent to deal extra more damage -- in any talent tree -- that or allow their personal weapon enchants to do more damage.

xipwnallx: i saw quite a lot of shaman tankers

zulit: of course they are not *needed*, same with hunters, priests

SaLS111: Heal DPS

|----------------------------------------------------------------------

PRIEST SHammy ROGUE

Cruelcodex: Shammys are gimp

[USMC]LightSol: but they are useless in pve

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: shamans are worse then my shit after cookies and milk

Prophet of War: I'm not really clued in on shamans so I'm nto going to comment. I have, however, seen shamans do a fair job in PvE and PvP

HEADHUNTER: i agree to the shaman trade

xipwnallx: shammy??

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: no blizz needs to take shamans out of game and say that they never exsited

.reaper: hey, i saw a shaman tank one of majordomo's adds

Alex|koogco: perhpas totems should have more hp.. but only in pve somehow..

.reaper: looong time ago

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: but pretty fun to play.. rofl

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: I was reading earlier that perhaps a Bard class would be good. One to help buff all other classes

Kumbol: after what I saw in BM one time, my opinion about the shamans is that they are uber - healers and quite uber dpsers with totemic gadgets

Hellser: Disagree.

NapoleanD: lol this "boring to play" thing comes up a lot for palys, but personally they can be more fun then rogues when you outsmart the "better" classes in PvP

Hellser: I love playing a shaman but lately the DPS with the shaman is dropping, even wit the Windfury totem.

HEADHUNTER: totems need more buffing capabilities

Joe: TOTEMS CAN NOW GET DESTROYED BY AOE>???????? THIS IS MADNESS

xipwnallx: lol

Joe: NO THIS IS SPARTER

Kumbol: are they ?

Prophet of War: No ti is not

Kumbol: :O

Omen: i like the idea of the shaman. its the brother of the druid. but there's not much going for them right now. but the minority who play them will find themselves very desired for when the much needed buffs come

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: rofl

xipwnallx: lol

NapoleanD: lmao

SaLS111: LoL

Cruelcodex: Ohh BTW, Nice animation on Mana Tide Totem.... 31 Point talent gets 1 shotted every time

HEADHUNTER: lol

xipwnallx: MADNESS

Musao: Being a shaman takes a lot of consideration - because dual-wielding offers great damage bursting potential. Two handed enhancement shamans deal great explosive windfury damage. Elemental shamans dish out damage on a CHANCE TO PROC basis. Resto shamans are the second rate bastard child healers of the world of warcraft, and overall, without their totems, they would be shifted off to the wayside and played even more infrequently than the Druid class has been since the beginning of the game. The main appeal for the Alliance shamans is that htey haven't had a chance to play this class before BC, and so it makes for something new and exciting (something this game needs more of)

Kumbol: omg ;)

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: This is SHAMAAAAAAAN

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: K WHY DONT YOU TURN OFF CAPS

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: my frinds a shaman ok even he saids playing a shaman is liek gettign hit in the heas with a mallet

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: *****NEXT QUESTION****

[WoW Insider] ewachowski: What do you think about the totem system? Does it deserve a revamp?

Hellser: YES!

SaLS111: Sure does

[USMC]LightSol: YES

Bahamut: Nah.

Kumbol: YE S !

Kaigami-UD Rogue: Definitely

zulit: Like Mek said, shamans are close to paladins at PvE healing

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: No

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: yes

Joe: FUCKING HELL YES

Dark Chili: FUCK YEAH

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: Yes.

NapoleanD: lol.....didn't we just go over this...

HEADHUNTER: totem needs revamp!!!

.reaper: not really

Glock: i think that the range of totems should be increased

Kaigami-UD Rogue: Its really quite idiotic

HEADHUNTER: yes

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: Helllz YEAH

Ilthana | Vashbeara: from a tank perspective: i have NO problem with a dps / heal shammy....in fact i love the self rez feature (sorry for taking so long)

Cruelcodex: totem needs to get fixed

xipwnallx: dont know about the totem what is it?

NapoleanD: yes they need a revamp

Kąнטήα™|# ®îÑĢ0: ye needs some fixing

Omen: definitely

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: they need to be liek made new agin they need to revam the whole charter

HEADHUNTER: totem nees a fixin without a doubt

Prophet of War: Yes. I think totems should act liek buffs, applying visible debuffs/buffs to the targets effected. Also, grounding totem should be rethought.

zulit: Totems are fine :) I cant imagine shooting 5 wands to one grounding totem to get it down

[USMC]LightSol: totems need to be remade since mostly the totems give healing and stuff

Omen: totems destoryed by AoE is just unfair

Joe: LICK MY BALLS AND CALL ME GERMIMER OF COURSE TOTEMS ARE NEEDING A REVAMP

[USMC]LightSol: without them

Cruelcodex: Mana tide totems, actually get killed now. a 31 point talent shouldnt have 1hp @ completly visable

Ilthana | Vashbeara: Most definately

[USMC]LightSol: they are useless

NapoleanD: lmao Joe

Bahamut: And shadow fury should take out EVERY toetm it hits.

HEADHUNTER: totems need better buffs

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: totems are liek turrents that are cloo but useless

xipwnallx: i figured out today some ppl plays on private servers

[USMC]LightSol: so if they can be so easily destroyed

xipwnallx: thats bad

[USMC]LightSol: they should be either made better buffed or stronger

SaLS111: SHammy vs MAge = nO totems : )

HEADHUNTER: totems are easy to kill

Kumbol: I hate fighting a shaman as a mage, a grounding totems making me pissed ooff

Hellser: I am very ticked off about the totems not able to help you completely, 5 health for every totem sides for Stoneclaw? C'mon.. give them 25% of the shaman so they can live longer and be at the shaman's side, it takes the shaman's mana to get each totem out and during that your enemy is killing you.

₪۞†§h@Ð0w†۞₪: yea ture

xipwnallx: what r totems?

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: *****NEXT QUESTION*****

[WoW Insider] ewachowski: All in all, do you think hybrid classes have more or less utility after BC, both in raiding and Arena?

Spencer: I don't like the idea of "setting up" to be good. I like the idea of passive buffs better. So I don't really like the idea of setting up totems.

Musao: Indeed it does. The range should be increased, the buffs that they provide need to be increased, the damage from fire totems needs to increase, because at level 70 they just do not stack up for the cost of the mana spent dropping them. The healing totems need to have their values increased, and in general, totems are just very low-end on the usefulness scale outside of Windfury totems for your groups and mana tide./

[HeroesforHire]Muffeevee: Totems definately need to last longer

Hellser: Agreed.

[USMC]LightSol: as i said

HEADHUNTER: