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Xfire Debate Club 5th Meeting: The Console War
June 7th, 2007 (Main Floor Transcript)
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: Welcome to today’s Debate Club: The Console War!
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: We will get started in a minute.
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: I am sure that all special guests and Xfire users alike have brought some strong opinions with them today. I hope that you also brought with you an open mind and some facts to back up your points.
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: The Xfire Debate Club is not a flame fest (leave that to the forums), instead it is a place where we should all be able to meet to actually discuss some issues without talking over one another.
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: Xfire users wishing to participate in the discussion should do so in the Open Debate Room. Remember there is no tolerance for spam in there. If you feel like talking about something other than the debate, please do that in the unofficial chatter room.
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: Participants with the best thoughts and opinions will be invited to the exclusive Two-Handed Sword Clan (www.xfire.com/clans/2handedsword
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: Also, as a quick plug. Xfire is launching today the new site for our 3 day gaming festival June 19 -21. Three days of live gaming, WoW Debate Club, live chat with Pure Pwnage and live broadcasts of elite CS:S matches. Not to mention $6,000 in prizes. Check out the new site here: www.xfire.com/stride
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: OK…enough with the shameless self promotion. My fingers are already numb!
So it is now about time to get this Debate Club started!!
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: I would like to introduce the biggest panel we have ever had here at the Xfire Debate Club.
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: Today’s panel will be moderated by Dan “Shoe” Hsu from EGM/1up
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: The special guests include (in no particular order):
Michael “Zonk” Zenke from Slashdot
Chris Grant from Joystiq
Brandon Sheffield from Gamasutra
Niels Keurentjes from Xboxic
Paul "Lefein" Shields from PS3forums
Jorge Ba-oh from Cubed3
(James couldn’t make it)
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: Peter Rojas from Engadget was a last minute cancellatio
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: Please join me in giving them a virtual round of applause!!
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: i cant hear you in Unofficial chatter???!!
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: I will now turn the floor over to Shoe, who will guide us through today’s Debate.
Have fun!!!
egmshoe: Hi everyone. First of all, thanks to Xfire for having me on.
egmshoe: Also, please have some sympathy for me... as I was telling these other guys, I work on a Mac at EGM, and the IT guys had to give me a loaner PC laptop.
egmshoe: It's 3 inches thick, 12" screen. Great, thanks IT guys.
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: (noob)
egmshoe: Anyway, let's have the guests introduce themselves really quick and have them tell a little something about themselves.
egmshoe: Let's go in order...Michael:
[Slashdot] Michael: Thanks Shoe. My name is Michael Zenke, and i'm the editor of the games subsection at Slashdot.org.
egmshoe: Chris:
[Joystiq] Chris: I'm Christopher Grant. I'm the managing editor for games blog Joystiq.com and the entire Joystiq network of gaming blogs,
egmshoe: Brandon:
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: ?? he may be late :-)
egmshoe: Niels then|
[Xboxic] Niels: Hi all, I'm Niels Keurentjes, founder and chief editor of Xboxic and the rest of the ICGamers network
egmshoe: Paul:
[PS3F]Lefein: I'm Paul Shields and I go by the handle of Lefein at PS3Forums.com as well as other websites. I am a student of San Jacinto College in Houston, Texas and currently on vacation!
egmshoe: thanks for taking the time! Finally: Jorge:
[Cubed3] Jorge: Cheers Shoe. My name's Jorge Ba-oh, editor of European Nintendo site cubed3.com. I love a good dose of adventure/action games and a good ol' RPG.
egmshoe: Great. OK, first question(s)...let's get to know you guys a bit better.
egmshoe: What current- (next-) gen systems do you own? Which do you spend the most time on? The least?
egmshoe: Just go ahead and jump in.
egmshoe: I think going one at a time might take too long. :)
[Slashdot] Michael: I own a 360 and a Wii, and simply by virtue of the game out at the moment, I spend a good deal of time more on the 360. My wife loves the Wii more, though.
[Xboxic] Niels: I own an Xbox 360 and Wii, of which the Wii gets a quite sad amount of playing time, and it has been gathering dust over the last 2 weeks again
[PS3F]Lefein: Well, I own a PS3, have about four friends with Wiis that I've checked out (and liked) and my best friend is hardcore 360 so I play on that a bit, too. Gotta show love for my gaming PC, I'm updating to AMD quads and an 8800 when Crysis hits!
[Joystiq] Chris: I own all current and next-gen systems with the loan exception of a DS Lite (DS Phat 4ever!). I avoid PC gaming since I use a Mac as my primary computer and the dang graphics cards are so expensive! If I had to choose a system I played the most, it would undoubtedly be the 360, followed very closely by the PS2.
egmshoe: Jorge?
[Cubed3] Jorge: I've had a decent go at the next generation systems - I own a Wii, and spend quite a bit on the 360. At the moment my attention fluctuates from the Wii to classics on the N64.
[Slashdot] Michael: Oh yeah, duh. I own a slimline PS2 as well. It, I, and GoW2 have had a lot of fun this year. I'm a giant MMOG nerd, so I do a lot of PC gaming too.
egmshoe: If I'm not mistaken, the only one here (besides me) who has a PS3: Lefein, from the PS3Forums
egmshoe: Why is that?
[Joystiq] Chris: Nope, I have one as well.
egmshoe: oh, oops...yup
[Joystiq] Chris: Mostly because Sony sent me a review unit. I don't know that I would have purchased one on my own,
egmshoe: Seems Wii and 360 are more common, though. Is that a cost thing for you guys?
[Slashdot] Michael: Too darn expensive. :) My company won't pay for my consoles. Something about 'entertainment software' not falling under their reimbursement plans.
[Cubed3] Jorge: Our PS2 is fantastic for some exclusives Sony hitters, especially with a lot of titles hitting the budget line and bargain bins.
[PS3F]Lefein: Seems like Im one of two with a Gaming PC as well..
egmshoe: Oh, we'll probably stick to mostly console talk today....
[Xboxic] Niels: I have been at the PS3 launch events and played most games, albeit briefly, found nothing much there I didn't have on 360 yet
[Joystiq] Chris: Yeah, the Xfire audience is probably curious about the distinct lack of PC gamers!
egmshoe: Haha, that's for another Debate Club. :)
egmshoe: Of all these systems, what do you picture yourself still actively playing with in the year 2010?
[PS3F]Lefein: All three.
egmshoe: And again, feel free to just jump in.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Just the DS
egmshoe: About time you showed up, Brandon! :P
[Slashdot] Michael: I look forward to the PS3, for sure, because I know there are going to be several Massive games on there I'll enjoy. FFXIII too, obviously. I will also be playing my 360, hopefully the sequels to Mass Effect. Oh Mass Effect ... how I dream of you in the quiet times.
[Xboxic] Niels: 360, and possibly PS3 or Wii if they manage to get a decent catalogue of non-360 games
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I guess that doesn't really count in a way, since you said 'three' - but I haven't booted up my 360 in 8 months, and my Wii is still in its box. All this new fangled stuff isn't that appealing to me!
[Joystiq] Chris: 2010? I better be playing Xbox 720 on my hoverbike! Seriously? I imagine I'll be playing all three, and the two portables -- well, PSP Lite by that point ;) Which one I'll be playing more is the meaty question. I was still playing the GameCube until last November, but at a notably different rate than PS2
(GDM/Gama) Brandon:
But if I had to predict the longevity of a console, I'd put my money on 360
[Cubed3] Jorge: Difficult to say, I feel that by then there'll be such a large range of titles on all 3 systems that it'll be difficult to put one down. Personally, the Wii will probably stand proud in our corner followed by the 360. DS will most likely still be in my pocket for travelling.
egmshoe: So far, very few people are saying "Wii." Do you guys feel that the Wii has limited long-term appeal?
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I think the Wii has decent long term appeal - but maybe not for editors of magazines and websites :)
egmshoe: Brandon: Why do you say that?
[Slashdot] Michael: I do! Wii is going to be great long term. Just not for me. I just don't think the Wii and I have a long future together.
[Joystiq] Chris: Ding ding ding. Brandon nailed it.
[PS3F]Lefein: How can it not with Microsoft actively pursuing visual control methods as well as Sony carrying on a tradition they started with the Eyetoy on PS2.
[Joystiq] Chris: I think there's a huge future for the Wii, but an audience of hardcore gamers probably isn't it.
[PS3F]Lefein: The Wii will probably penetrate emerging markets far longer than the big two
egmshoe: Same question to all of you: Why are we (mag/website editors) not seeing the long-term appeal of the Wii?
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I say that because the Wii is not targeting us. It's targeting moms, grandmas, kids, pretty much everyone but the hardcore 'I've been playing forever' type
[Slashdot] Michael: As Tycho and Gabe have said, the Wii is not "for" us.
[Xboxic] Niels: I bought the Wii because I had expected a lot from the motion-sensing appeal, and got shocked by its total lack of gameplay after that
[Slashdot] Michael: I wouldn't say total lack, Niels.
[Slashdot] Michael: Some of the high end games just aren't there yet.
[Xboxic] Niels: since then it's been solely for alcohol-induced evenings with non-gaming visitors wanting to play a bout of Wii Tennis
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Plus I've never been a big fan of nintendo software, so.... *runs*
[Xboxic] Niels: but that's a total lack right now isn't it?
[PS3F]Lefein: Niels is so right on that, I was playign Red STeel and the AI was prescripted and unimpressive.
[Slashdot] Michael: Booze + Wii = win, that's for sure.
[Joystiq] Chris: I think publishers are also hedging their bets. Look at a game like Carnival: minigames with a three-month dev cycle. These publishers aren't selling to hardcore gamers. The attach rate on Wii will be low, undoubtedly, compared to the 360's massive attach rate.
[Slashdot] Michael: Ugh. Do not judge the Wii by Red Steel that is ... bad. :)
egmshoe: Michael: What's a "high-end game"? Graphics? Gameplay? Traditional IPs and franchises?
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: yeah, the wii is good for parties and for allowing girlfriends to feighn interest in our pasttime
[Slashdot] Michael: The IPs. Mario, Samus, etc.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: *feign
egmshoe: Does Nintendo need to do a better job of keeping its traditional, hardcore audience happy? There seems to be a bit of a backlash against the company by that crowd right now.
[Cubed3] Jorge: Aye, at the moment the Wii seems to be trying to expand the traditional gaming audience but perhaps does lack titles that draw you into longer gaming sessions. Several Square RPGs and some in-house Nintendo projects (Mario, Prime etc) should hopefully regain interest for longer/less simplified experiences
egmshoe: Including from some in this room.
[Xboxic] Niels: while I must admit I've never been a Zelda fan anyway, I bought it after raving reviews, and quit after a grand total of 5 hours
[PS3F]Lefein: No, absolutely not, I love what Nintendo is doing!!
[Slashdot] Michael: I think it would be great if we'd had one game besides Twilight Princess and mayyybe Wario Ware since the system's launch, yeah.
egmshoe: Lefein: Please explain.
[Joystiq] Chris: I would settle for anything that isn't a minigame compilation at this point! The system is barely 6 months old and there's over 400+ distinct minigames already released for it, adding up the unique minigames so far.
[Xboxic] Niels: I had just (finally) completed Oblivion on the 360 in the weeks before, and Zelda was just so.... confined, limiting, expressionless
[PS3F]Lefein: Everytime someone picks up a Wiimote and enjoys gaming that is someone who will be interested in XBox 720 and PS4 or even PC gaming!
[Joystiq] Chris: There's a ton more on the horizons
[Slashdot] Michael: I disagree, respectfully, sir. A wii player is not a 'gamer' by the industry's traditional standard, I think.
[PS3F]Lefein: Neither was I until I touched an Atari
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I think their traditional hardcore audience are a bunch of whiners, but they could do a better job of trying to reach non-nintendo-fan hardcore gamers, that's for sure. Allowing Capcom to make Resident Evil games on their consoles isn't all it's gonna take. But you know...the thing is so inviting and happy anyway that the whole hardcore thing seems...not natural.
[PS3F]Lefein: Something has to get you started
[Joystiq] Chris: My Aunt Suzy (not her real name) isn't going to buy anything beyond Wii Sports,
[PS3F]Lefein: But what if every 1 out of 100 Suzies did?
[Joystiq] Chris: There was an article by N'Gai Croal in Newsweek today about just this: Someone looking for Wii Sports isn't going to trade up to Gears of War.
[Slashdot] Michael: Right. It's a great system, but I don't think it's a starter drug for 'harder stuff'.
[Xboxic] Niels: I think Chris' remark has more to it than it seems at first: I think the Wii's current status as minigame monster could quite possibly be its eventual reason for survival amongst casual gamers that find epic titles on 360 and PS3 too daunting
[Cubed3] Jorge: Hopefully with a few bigger, less mini-game orientated projects on the way developers will offer more than a series of simplified mini-games. I feel after the initial hurdle (much like the DS had to face) games with that some might say have more substance will come about.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Chris - well you never know. Could be a 'gateway game' as it were, and get them into the idea of games period - but I do agree that it's unlikely.
[Joystiq] Chris: First hit is "wii"
[Joystiq] Chris: I had to
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I find it odd that there are so few traditional 'casual' games on the Wii, like Popcap/Diner Dash/Solitaire stuff
[Slashdot] Michael: Niels: True, but past generations have proven that the hardcore can successfully maintain a console until it's cheap enough for more casual users.
[Xboxic] Niels: Brandon: that's because the focus in the first batch of games was on justifying the motion controllers
[Slashdot] Michael: Agreed. Zuma would be kickass on the Wii.
[Joystiq] Chris: PS2 being the pefect example of Michael's point.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Yeah, well I think Nintendo is being really slow about rolling out downloadable games
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: original ones
[Slashdot] Michael: Hah. That is definitely true.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: If even Sony can beat them to the punch, you know they're lagging
[Joystiq] Chris: I think Nintendo is being slow about everything online,
[PS3F]Lefein: Or Online games period
egmshoe: Let's talk about that for a second.
[Slashdot] Michael: *headdesk* Friend Codes!
[Slashdot] Michael: WHYYYY!????
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Yeah, god. Friend codes
egmshoe: Does Nintendo *need* to be more aggressive in the online-gaming arena?
[Joystiq] Chris: Everytime someone exchanges a friend code, Mario eats a kitten.
[Xboxic] Niels: XBLA owns VC hands down right now - even despite the VC having a nice back catalogue one cannot underestimate Microsoft at least adding multiplayer and updated graphics to all the retro crap they've been putting out, and it's got some great original titles
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: That's the reason I've still never played wifi stuff on DS.
egmshoe: Is it important, though?
[PS3F]Lefein: If they want to have longevity then yes. Games like Blast Factor or Geometry Wars would have cost you 20 bones in the past
[Slashdot] Michael: What with the future of human civilization being dictated by this glorious electronic network, I would say so. Nintendo has got to get with the times.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Yes, Nintendo does need to be more aggressive. The future of games, as much as I hate to admit it, is in online stuff and interaction
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: being able to download games, especially
[PS3F]Lefein: Online turns that into a revenue generation monster
[Slashdot] Michael: Completely.
egmshoe: Not just to satisfy you guys as hardcore gamers, but for their position in the market.
[PS3F]Lefein: and all you really need is an ethernet jack
[Slashdot] Michael: Three works: Massively Multiplayer Pokemon.
[Slashdot] Michael: Cha-ching!
[Joystiq] Chris: Well, online-gaming being completely distinct from their overall mess of an online strategy.That said, yes. I think they do need to wise up and be more agrresive. The older, casual gamers may not care, but the hardcore audience htey continue to neglect certainly do!
[PS3F]Lefein: They'll care about downloading an $8 game rather than buying a $20 one
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I think online games are crap, personally. I think MMOs are boring, I don't want to play with jerks online and hear about who they think is gay, but a lot of people do. and the casual game market that Nintendo loves is mostly online and web-based.
[Slashdot] Michael: It's more than that, Chris. How many people are using a MySpace or the like? Younger people, even non-gamers, are just used to being online all the time.
egmshoe: But wait...if the casual market doesn't care that much, but Nintendo is finding success in appealing to that casual market...maybe they don't need to worry so much about online? THoughts?
[Xboxic] Niels: that was what I was about to say yeah
[Cubed3] Jorge: I agree with the Wii situation (in terms of online) - Nintendo certainly need to improve the experience with the hardware capable of proviidng it; it's certainly a step up from the GameCube, but will perhaps improved in time. With a selection of first party games coming about soon (a select few online enabled) it does seem positive for Wii owners.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Casual market does care, they just don't know it
[Xboxic] Niels: their demographic is the casual gamer that doesn't want to play 10 year old Pete striving for level 395 in Halo 2 leaderboards
[Slashdot] Michael: Right, Shoe, but I think it's a matter of shifting focus. Younger people will take the online stuff Nintendo gives them, and then want more.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: you download your casual games from the net - Pogo.com has its online community stuff with badges and all, and it's really gonna be important going forward
[Cubed3] Jorge: Nintendo do need to provide a solid storage means though, one thing I disagreed with the Wii pre and post release was the lack of mass storage, or at least the ability to use external means
[Joystiq] Chris: There's a lot of MegaTouch machines in bars and I'm quite certain they're profitable, but they're targeting an entirely different audience -- there is innovation online beyond a unique control system. Nintendo is entirely ignoring that,
[PS3F]Lefein: Online is important and Nintendo is very well aware of this
egmshoe: OK, forgetting about the Wii for a moment....
[Joystiq] Chris: I think Nintendo, like Sony, are just slow out the gate,
[PS3F]Lefein: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3157866
egmshoe: Does Sony and Microsoft need to do a better job of reaching out to the casual market?
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I forgot about it already! heyooooo
[PS3F]Lefein: Nintendo cares a lot about their future online plans I think, but they are being slower than Sony (and many people said that wasnt possible)
egmshoe: Does=Do
[Xboxic] Niels: Microsoft certainly does, all Xbox killer games are oriented towards 15-35 year old male experienced gamers
[Joystiq] Chris: I think Microsoft is doing an admirable job reaching to the casual market -- unfortunately, the casual market doesn't want to spend $400 on an HD console. Same as they didn't want to spend $300 on a PS2, but they'll spend $130.
[Slashdot] Michael: Hmm. I think it's a question of focus. If they really are intending to expand the market, and not just pay lip service, then yes.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Sony needs to do a better job of reaching out to everybody right now. They've always subsisted on exclusives, and they basically can't now. so I'd say they need to step up seriously. But not casual for them yet. they don't have the user base to support it
[PS3F]Lefein: Yes, they very much do and they need to improve the way they communicate to the customer as well.
[Slashdot] Michael: Of the two, I agree that Microsoft is doing a better job so far.
egmshoe: Lefein: What do you mean by that?
[Slashdot] Michael: But when Eyetoy comes out ...
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Also, I think Microsoft could step it up more on XBLA, but they have pleny of nice casual games in there, and their Games for Windows initiative has plenty going for it.
[Joystiq] Chris: Yeah, I really don't see a casual gamer spending $600 on the PS3.
[Xboxic] Niels: XBLA was supposed to reach out to casual gamers, but it's been a joke for months until the recent new slew of original content
egmshoe: How do they need to communicate better to their audiences?
[PS3F]Lefein: Microsoft had a year start to educate the casual consumer or gamer about the technology going into HD and they squandered it on throwing barbs at Sony instead
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Well Microsoft's biggest problem is that they're too constrained by their releasing pipeline
[PS3F]Lefein: Meanwhile, Sony was spending precious time debunking rumors about rental disc protection and borked Cell.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: they release so few games, because they have too few people working to certify XBLA titles
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: and Sony has too many departments working on theirs
[Slashdot] Michael: The casual consumer couldn't give half a laf about HD, I think.
[Joystiq] Chris: Events like Tuesday's Pac-Man championship are interesting becasue it shows MS talking up a game that has lost resonance with the modern hardcore gamer but is still a paragon of gaming for older generations.
[Slashdot] Michael: Games are, as always, what attracts people to a console.
[PS3F]Lefein: They need to stop being at each others throats and let them know why they should give a crap about HD
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: They need to streamline all that and make the pipeline simple and easy and more importantly QUICK for developers
[PS3F]Lefein: How many people upgraded to HDTVs before the Super Bowl last year?
[Cubed3] Jorge: Indeed - the main question for regular consumers would probably be: "Does it look good?", as opposed to "How is it made to look good"
[Joystiq] Chris: Not me. I don't have an HDTV
egmshoe: Brandon: Hold on to that thought for a moment.... I have some questions along those lines (developing XBLA games).
[Slashdot] Michael: Yeah. As long as it looks "good enough."
[Xboxic] Niels: nah Michael that's not entirely true: any new console is a gadget, and new gadgets sell with buzzwords. HD is just this era's buzzword that everyone has to have because marketing departments say so
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Not I. I watched at my friend's house with his giant screen
[Slashdot] Michael: Yeah, but at $600 you can't sell a buzzword.
[PS3F]Lefein: If there was such a thing as good enough, then HDTvs wouldnt be flying off the shelves this year. Im not buying that.
[Slashdot] Michael: It's just too darn expensive.
[Xboxic] Niels: correct, hence PS3's low sales figures
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I'm gonna get an HDTV though, because I actually don't own a TV at all - part of why I haven't broken out the 360 or Wii
[PS3F]Lefein: Low sales figures in America, maybe.
[Joystiq] Chris: Oh, now the truth comes out Brandon!
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: PS3's low sales figures have more to do with there being few interesting games that aren't on other consoles
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: well I can play games on my monitor
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: there's just nothing out that's worth the trouble, particularly
egmshoe: The Consumer Electronics Association said that almost 90% of TVs sold now will be HDTVs (from a study a couple of years ago). Don't you guys think those consumers will want HD systems to help show off what their new HDTVs can do? Will this only benefit MS and Sony further?
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I think consumers won't really realize it's happening
[PS3F]Lefein: I watched Pirates on BluRay with my girlfriend last week before going to see the movie. I'll politely disagree.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: they'll just know they got an HDTV and that their 360 works on it
[Xboxic] Niels: PS3's low sales figures are a result of many things, of which lack of exclusive titles is just one. Imho most importantly it's just too bloody expensive to justify a 'toy', what a games console is still sort of supposed to be
[Slashdot] Michael: Yeah, I guess it's kinda nice to show off the new purchase, but I think it's mostly about the games and the price.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: when I go into EBgames, I still hear people asking if Saints Row will play on their regular Xbox, etc
[Joystiq] Chris: Sure it will, but that's a long term strategy. It will take a considerable amount of time to educate consumers enough to appreciate the added benefit of something so relatively esoteric as an HD-enabled game console
[PS3F]Lefein: *cough* The PS3 is breaking sales records in Europe..
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: people really just don't know about this stuff. It's too complicated for most people, and if they are interested in 'HD,' they think it's the TV, not the system, I'd say
[Slashdot] Michael: Buzz only gets you excited until you see the price tags involved.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: or maybe the other way round?
[PS3F]Lefein: http://www.play3-live.com/news-ps3-1-050-000-ps3-vendues-en-europe-3780.html
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: your mom is breaking sales records!
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: *snap*
[Joystiq] Chris: Haha, OH SNAP
egmshoe: Let's talk about exclusives for a moment. How important is that nowadays? Still very? Not so much?
[Xboxic] Niels: lefein: it would be breaking sales records if it sold 4 times as many units as the Xbox 360 like PS2 did last generation. Anything less is loss from business perspective
[PS3F]Lefein: I'm just saying, you guys are talking like success is out of reach for PS3 and yet you gave the 360 a year to get Gears out//
[PS3F]Lefein: Before that, it was nothing but an HD Xbox
[Joystiq] Chris: I'll kill anyone here for Bioshock. I hate to be so openly weak ... but I need it.
[Slashdot] Michael: It's not out of reach. It's just not here now.
[PS3F]Lefein: That was the general buzz
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: exclusives are important but impossible now. What with everyone using unreal engine 3 and being forced to go cross-platform because of cost, exclusives will be harder to come by
[Xboxic] Niels: the PS3 will most definitely succeed as long as nearly every consumer uses the word 'PlayStation' as a synonym for 'game console'
[Cubed3] Jorge: Indeed, I agree in some ways - perhaps this time next year things would have changed for Sony, in a good way mind
[Joystiq] Chris: But somehow MS keeps landing exclusives
[Slashdot] Michael: Exclusivity! I think it means nothing nowadays. The cost of making games is too high, etc.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Honestly I do think success is a bit far out of reach for the PS3. I don't see any reason for it to turn around, aside from exclusives
[Xboxic] Niels: and MS keeps landing impressive exclusives
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Because - if you have a 360 already, why buy a PS3 if the same games are coming?
[Xboxic] Niels: Brandon: the brand will sell, if nothing else
[Joystiq] Chris: BioShock, Splinter Cell, Gears, Halo3, Blue Dragon, Mass Effect,
egmshoe: So does this bode well for 360?
[Joystiq] Chris: Those are all exclusives
[Slashdot] Michael: Right, but what about next year? Sony is working on those exclusives now, for then.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Well it's not selling well right now - and the brand is still the brand
[PS3F]Lefein: If it was so impressive, then how come a week can't pass without eharing about MGS4 defecting over to the 360?
[Slashdot] Michael: Maybe after a price drop, with upcoming exclusives ...
[Slashdot] Michael: I will say, Microsoft's exclusives all make me really glad I have a 360.
[Xboxic] Niels: Timmy asks Santa for a PlayStation, why would mommy buy less? as the price drops, demand will come back on its own, helped by good exclusives
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: yeah, but they only have a few. It's a question of 10 exclusives in a year, versus the old days of a big exclusive per month or so
[Joystiq] Chris: I don't think anyone suspects MGS4 will defect, just go multiplatform.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Yeah...they're gonna have to do some serious price droppage
[Slashdot] Michael: Especially Mass Effect. You hear that BioWare?
[Cubed3] Jorge: Indeed - it still is fairly hard to tell, but as many have said with Microsoft churning out a range of varied exclusives it'll seem hard for Nintendo to catch up
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I agree with Chris - multiplatform, not dropping
[Joystiq] Chris: Well, look at attach rates. How many exclusives do you need?
[Joystiq] Chris: People don't buy a game a week,
[Joystiq] Chris: One exclusive can make a system -- See GTA on PS2
[Slashdot] Michael: Maybe one a month? It'd be nice if we were seeing more games a month period on the Wii and PS3 right now.
[Xboxic] Niels: I don't think MGS4 is a system seller like Halo is, they especially need more general public games like Final Fantasy and something as wide reaching as GTA
[Slashdot] Michael: Let alone exclusives.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: well also, my analogy was terrible because I said 'ten per year versus one per month' - that's a difference of two, and I'm an idiot
[Slashdot] Michael: heheh
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: but you know what I mean!!
[PS3F]Lefein: Halo would have been like... Number 4 or 5 on PS2s top sellers?
[Joystiq] Chris: haha, go sit in the corner.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: More versus less!
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: But Chris - not everyone is gonna want each exclusive cause they're not all for the same market
[Xboxic] Niels: lefein: Halo 2 holds current record to my knowledge for best selling entertainment product in opening weekend
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: so they need several exclusives in different genres
[Xboxic] Niels: which includes momvie industry
egmshoe: Let's get back to what Brandon was so passionate about before:
egmshoe: Do any of the companies do a better job at catering to the independent game makers?
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: YES
[Joystiq] Chris: Sure, I think they have a nice swatch. JRPG, American RPG, Action, FPS, awesomebioshocksuperFPS, etc.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: there
[Xboxic] Niels: yes
[Slashdot] Michael: Right now Microsoft has it hands down, I think.
egmshoe: Explain?
[Xboxic] Niels: I have spoken to game developers that say Microsoft will send a crack team down for a week if you got a problem devving for 360, and Sony just laughs at the phone if you're not an SCEE owned company
[Slashdot] Michael: Well, XBLA has had really strong showings from indies.
egmshoe: Brandon mentioned earlier the bottleneck at Microsoft....
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I think that if MS can get their $#!+ together with their Game Studio Express idea, and do that whole 'youtube of games' thing, they'll win that market
[Joystiq] Chris: Sony is trying with their e-Distributed titles (I hate writing that), but you can't beat the XNA/Xbox 360 one-two punch.
[PS3F]Lefein: Really, Niels? Perhaps you haven't heard about EDGE?
[Cubed3] Jorge: Certainly - PS2 did/is doing well because of the range of genres available - from its good dose of RPGs, party games (Guitar Hero/Buzz) to fighters and guaranteed mulitplatform
[Slashdot] Michael: Sony's focus on AAA developers for small-cost titles seems like they're almost shutting out the indies.
[Slashdot] Michael: Look at the bar you have to hit!
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: So in order to do that, MS needs to streamline their distribution channel and make it easier for indies to get on there
[Slashdot] Michael: You have to be better than Jaffe to get in!
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: because you have to make the whole game, self-funded, before it gets into XBLA
[Joystiq] Chris: Does swearing more than Jaffe count?
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: and then you have to wait for that to pay dividends...
[PS3F]Lefein: So, Sony is shutting out the indies by supporting Media Molecule and the FloW Team?
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: kind of a tough proposition
[PS3F]Lefein: I'm not buying that.
[Slashdot] Michael: Maybe not shutting them out, but shifting the focus.
[PS3F]Lefein: To take a crack at Sony
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I don't know that Sony's shutting out the indies, but they're certainly focusing on their own studios more
[Slashdot] Michael: XBLA has a bunch of crap on it.
[PS3F]Lefein: When has their focus EVER been on developer support?
[Slashdot] Michael: If you are making a game you can look at that and go: "I can do better than that."
[PS3F]Lefein: I think they are making changes for the better.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: which makes sense for big titles and stuff. But Flow did *start* as an indie project
[Xboxic] Niels: we still have to see the result of Sony not shutting out the indies
[Joystiq] Chris: Well, Media Molecule is hardly a mom-n-pop shop working with no resources.
[Slashdot] Michael: Exactly.
[Slashdot] Michael: LittleBigPlanet, by the way, is I think the biggest thing PS3 has going for it right now, IMHO.
[Joystiq] Chris: And flOw had considerable resources contributed by Sony to turn it from the indie game to the PS3 Sixaxis showpiece it is today
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Indies are the future of games I want to play, so I'm pretty well hoping that they're gonna find success on console
[Slashdot] Michael: Indie Wii games would be tremendous.
[PS3F]Lefein: I think the biggest thing it ahs going for it is that it's not coughing and dying on anyone
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: because big developers pretty much stopped making games I like.
[PS3F]Lefein: but I'm sure we'll cross that bridge later
[Joystiq] Chris: LittleBigPlanet is an incredible example of Sony doing something right by going completely against the grain of their message for the past year.
[Slashdot] Michael: "We're doing everything wrong, so let's do the opposite!"
[Slashdot] Michael: :)
egmshoe: LOl
[Joystiq] Chris: Exactly!
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I'm actually not too excited by littlebigplanet, but that's just me!
egmshoe: LOL i mean :)
[Joystiq] Chris: a 2D platformer? You need a $600 "true HD" system for that.
egmshoe: Brandon: Me too. *gulp*
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Freudian Castlevania slip
[Xboxic] Niels: Indie is a good thing but only to a certain extent. A game with a scope like Oblivion, MGS4, Killzone or Gears is strictly well-funded 50+ man studio territory
[PS3F]Lefein: Yeah well, I guess its a good thing we also have Ninja Gaiden Sigma, Uncharted, Lair, Heavenly Sword, and LBP to look forward to
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Ah, shoe - I always knew we were brothers
[Joystiq] Chris: But, here we are, and that's the new hotness. Really? Both of you not down with LBP? *sigh*
[Slashdot] Michael: I know I've drunk the koolaid.
egmshoe: I'm just a moderator. I need to butt out. OK, moving on....
egmshoe: Which box is has the best online capability? I don't just mean multiplayer play, but everything....
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: your opinion counts!
[Joystiq] Chris: 360. No doubt.
[Xboxic] Niels: 360 easily by far
[PS3F]Lefein: All in the first year.. No sitting on our thumbs waiting for a third person shoote rthat lasts five hours..
[Slashdot] Michael: We heart you Shoe.
egmshoe: Why?
[Slashdot] Michael: 360 ftw.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: eksbawkz
[Cubed3] Jorge: I thing 99% of us will probably say 360 ;)
[Slashdot] Michael: The 'presence' that you have online is amazing.
egmshoe: Not the "heart Shoe" part, but why 360?
[PS3F]Lefein: XBox360 has the best online right now
[PS3F]Lefein: But Home is going to turn the heat up BIG.
[Joystiq] Chris: Sony's system can be laughable at times. They're getting better, but it still feels like an unfinished product a lot of the time.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Lefain: you think so?
[Cubed3] Jorge: Interface, downloadables, the games one can play online at the moment, ease of getting online...
[Slashdot] Michael: I love booting up the machine ... haha ... and seeing other folks there. The achievments, etc. Everything is so well polished and set just so.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I don't know how to be interested in virtual worlds. I try, but I just can't do it.
egmshoe: What about web browsing, Mii parades, Everybody Votes (or is it Everyone Votes? I forget), streaming movies, online stores, etc.
[Slashdot] Michael: I am very interested in virtual worlds.
[Xboxic] Niels: unified friends list, integrated on the web, online achievement comparisons, achievements in general, gamerscores etc.
[PS3F]Lefein: Absolutely, I think Home is something that goes back to what we were talking about earlier as far as reaching out to casual gamers.
[Slashdot] Michael: And i just can't care about Home.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I think 360s is best because of achievements, friends lists, etc. Really being able to just get out there and play
[Joystiq] Chris: I'm confused by home. Why load up a separate program, use the inefficient interface of walking around to go talk to someone? As a Mac user, this is hard to say, but Microsoft has really nailed the UI-battle here.
[Slashdot] Michael: Sorry Phil, I've been to Second Life.
[Slashdot] Michael: I know what it's like.
[Xboxic] Niels: demos downloadable online for over half the released games, all XBLA games having free trials available
[Joystiq] Chris: Hey, remember, he yelled at me when I called it Second Life ;)
[PS3F]Lefein: It doesn't take Timmy2035 with a rank4 Masterchief to figre out how to wave to someone or throw a TV down stairs
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Also with Miis and Everybody Votes and stuff - that's all stuff you have to specifically go and do - it's not as integrated.
[Slashdot] Michael: Try before you buy is great, totally Niels.
[PS3F]Lefein: It's a way to give a more visceral interactive experience with online
[Slashdot] Michael: Yeah, but how long is the tv stuff going to keep you interested, lefein? Wouldn't you rather actually be playing a *game* with your friends?
[PS3F]Lefein: We've had 3D games for years, why can't MS offer a 3d online experience to go with it for what they charge you?
[Xboxic] Niels: and while it hurts to some extent to say it, Marketplace is a great invention is general
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I just read a william gibson book. I know what virtual worlds are like, and they're scary have a bunch of weirdos in, and are constructed by asian fetishists.
[Joystiq] Chris: I suppose ... I think there's a very small market that's going to really care about hanging with their buds in a 3D virtual world. Ask Linden Lab's fishy numbers!
[PS3F]Lefein: And that is different from Live how, Brandon?
[Xboxic] Niels: I was sceptic about microtransactions before, but I've spent 5 digits on MP thus far
[Slashdot] Michael: hah.
[Cubed3] Jorge: Everybody votes is interesting, it's a good step Nintendo have taken but still has a sense of anominity - it really should have features that allows players to see what their friends have voted for, without it it'
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Oh - I was referring to things like home, where you have an avatar. also it was a joke.
[PS3F]Lefein: Any online environment will have its animals, that has nothing to do with offering a better product.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Or is that not what you mean, lefein?
[PS3F]Lefein: People understand things like The Sims and Second life
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Sorry, I was just taking a moment to hate on william gibson - that was pretty well unrelated.
[PS3F]Lefein: it makes it accessible
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: dude
[Xboxic] Niels: yeah but does it work
[Xboxic] Niels: why spend 5 minutes walking in virtual corridors
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: people don't understand second life
[PS3F]Lefein: Does the Sims sell?
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: they sure THINK they do, but they don't
[Xboxic] Niels: when I could press 'guide', select 'friends' and talk right away
[Slashdot] Michael: Gibson --, Stephenson ++
[Cubed3] Jorge: It's something Nintendo should learn from Microsoft - on Live people are closer to having an identity - there really should be Mii/friend integration with all online activity on the Wii
[Joystiq] Chris: Agree with Brandon here.
I manage a Second LIfe blog (secondlifeinsider.com) and their content is enormously esoteric.
[Xboxic] Niels: I absolutely love the Home gimmick, but I'm having severe doubts about it being practical or even useful
[PS3F]Lefein: Let's not get it twisted, there's a reason why MS wont go the way of Home and it has nothing to do with offering you quality.
egmshoe: OK, this is interesting, but I want to move on to one more question at least...because soon, Q&A will start.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: that's why CEOs everywhere are like "oh man, let's go make an island in Second Life for thousands of dollars' - so that 100 people can see it
egmshoe: (from the audience)
[PS3F]Lefein: http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/46928
egmshoe: Speaking of Marketplace....are we getting ripped off on microtransactions? Paying for new maps and modes and such. Also...any particular microtransactions you personally are fond of?
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Microtransactions blow
[PS3F]Lefein: Shane Kim basically admitting "We're in the hole and can't follow Sony there"
[PS3F]Lefein: Meanwhile, you foot the bill all the same.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: especially when people want them to be free, and MS says 'NO, YOU CHARGE'
[Xboxic] Niels: microtransactions can both blow and rule
[Slashdot] Michael: That was amazingly weak.
[PS3F]Lefein: Was it?
[Joystiq] Chris: I think the entire online console sales world is struggling with pricing. $5 for an NES game? That's outrageous.
[Slashdot] Michael: The Oblivion content was well priced, I think.
egmshoe: Horse armor?
[Slashdot] Michael: After Horse Armor, of course.
[Slashdot] Michael: :)
egmshoe: :)
[PS3F]Lefein: :)
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I just don't want to pay for stuff
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: simple as that
[Slashdot] Michael: Free is better than not.
[Joystiq] Chris: says the guy with no TV :)
egmshoe: No one wants to pay for stuff...
[Xboxic] Niels: NFS:Carbon allowed you to spend a ton of MP to download a 10Kb patch to unlock content already on the disc so it was like the collector's edition
egmshoe: but *do* you pay for stuff anyways?
[PS3F]Lefein: Yes
[PS3F]Lefein: No argument
egmshoe: Do you buy microtransactions even if you'd hate to?
[Slashdot] Michael: That is true, but if they're going to make excellent pack-ins like Knights of the Nine, I'll happily pay.
[PS3F]Lefein: You do pay for things, these people have servers and staff to pay for
[Xboxic] Niels: but then again, I've bought many expansions for 5 to 10 bucks that doubled a game's fun and lastability
[Joystiq] Chris: I'll pay for stuff I tihnk is a good value, just like I would in the store. New maps for Gears for $10? Okay,
[Joystiq] Chris: I don't think this is a new shopping paradigm.
[PS3F]Lefein: But while someone says "I only paid 5$ for Live this month" I bought MK2 on PSN and shared one of my favorite games with my girlfriend.
[Xboxic] Niels: Crackdown DLC was masterful for 800 MP, and most of it was even free
[PS3F]Lefein: So yes, you do pay. It's just up to the consuemr t oask themselve swhat exactly they will pay for.
egmshoe: But couldn't you argue that, under another system or program...with another company, those maps would've been free? (the Gears $10 maps)
[Slashdot] Michael: Though I haven't played as much with that as I'd like, I agree that Crackdown seemed well priced.
egmshoe: would've or should've
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: yeah, they could've been free
[Xboxic] Niels: of course they could've been free
[PS3F]Lefein: Didnt Cliffy want it to be free?
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: but indeed, somebody took the time to make those, so they should get paid, theoretically
[Xboxic] Niels: but as in any economic system, you pay somewhere
[Slashdot] Michael: If Epic wanted them free, they should have been free.
[Xboxic] Niels: if it's not for the maps, it's games going up to $65 MSRP next year
[Slashdot] Michael: That's the bottom line, I think. Or, Microsoft shouldn't have let that get out.
[Cubed3] Jorge: Microtransactions can be beneficial, but perhaps it would be good to offer better trials/previews of content before charging players. Extra, bonus content (maps etc) is good, but where transactions are required to make the game better/fill the gaps it's perhaps not the most ideal solution
[Joystiq] Chris: You could get mad that they weren't, but why? The game was great (evidenced by reviews everywhere) and the new maps were a great value add. That's worth money to me ... would they be better if they were free? YES! But so would my house or my car.
[Xboxic] Niels: or the 360 price drop being delayed or whatever
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: one question I've had though, is if something is released for 'free' - how much cost does MS incur for that?
[Slashdot] Michael: Just a bad line to sell your customers.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: or Sony for that matter
[Xboxic] Niels: not paying now just forces them to get payment for the developers elsewhere
egmshoe: ok, let's wrap up this particular subject...say your last words, then we move on to audience questions....
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: cause there must be overhead for employees, maintanance, etc
[PS3F]Lefein: But Niels, thats not ture, online gaming has been alive and well for years with PC gamers
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: *maintenance
[Joystiq] Chris: Sure, MS pays for hosting that contnet.
[Xboxic] Niels: lefein: I'm talking about DLC
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: yeah, so they'd be losing money if they sent it out for free, not breaking even
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: and they need money
[Joystiq] Chris: They need to charge x amount on anything to recoup that simple cost ... I suspect they won't dish what that amount is however. :)
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: poor giant corporation :(
[PS3F]Lefein: Does having an XBox Live accout grant you a discount for FFXI or what?
[Slashdot] Michael: No discout on FFXI.
[Joystiq] Chris: Ouch!!
[PS3F]Lefein: What about college students exceeding their bandwidth because of halo games hosting off their XBoxes?
[Slashdot] Michael: Double-payment is fun, I guess.
[Xboxic] Niels: many gamers also underestimate the costs of DLC severely
egmshoe: OK, I have to round you guys up for the audience Q&A. Our time's coming up, and my eyes are hurting from this 12" screen. :)
[Joystiq] Chris: We'll see about The Agency on PS3 when more details come out -- free MMO on PS3? That'll raise some eyebrows
[Xboxic] Niels: they're like "I could've drawn up that new cavern map in 4 hours!"
egmshoe: It looks like we already answered AOD_Tr_LOTM's question....
[PS3F]Lefein: Free MMo or not, I dont have to pay to connect the system to play WarHawk.
egmshoe: Ok, first question:
egmshoe: myspace-it really works!: Obviously, the Wii is bringing in many non-gamers and casual gamers. The question is, will this market make the jump to hardcore, in order to facilitate the simultaneous existance of something like Bioshock and Wario Ware, or will we see a slow transition of 3rd parties over to more casual development for the Wii (and future Wii-like systems)?
[Slashdot] Michael: EA has already announced their studio only aimed at Wii games.
[Slashdot] Michael: I don't think the transition will be that slow.
[Xboxic] Niels: I think Nintendo will enforce the Wii staying in its own market
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: hmm, we sort of covered this, but I think: maybe? but only if there's a hardcore gamer in the house. I think that if a casual player like a mom sees her child playing something more hardcore but accessible, it could be a gateway.
egmshoe: Niels: "casual," you mean?
[Xboxic] Niels: they lack funds and manpower to fight Sony and MS at their own game
[Xboxic] Niels: casual is not the right word really, more 'Wii' :)
[PS3F]Lefein: Thats a good question! I think the industry in general will grow a lot ove rthe next five years and you will probably see a lot of devleopers cut their teeth on the Wii and Xbox360 as well as PC. There will never be a lack of content, thats for sure.
[Joystiq] Chris: I really don't see the Wii owner becoming a hardcore gaming convert. I think studios will target the people who have bought Wiis with games that would appeal to them. And because those gamers aren't buying 3 minigame compilations a month, I suspect we'll still see low 3rd party software support for Wii.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: oh, when this person said 'market' I thought 'consumers'
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: looks like half of us took it that way, half thought developers. nice!
[Slashdot] Michael: If they're releasing fewer games, I hope we get to the point where the Wii titles are higher quality.
[Slashdot] Michael: Shovelware is not something I enjoy seeing on my new system.
[Xboxic] Niels: well developers follow consumers in a capitalist system if all's normal :)
egmshoe: Next question:
[PS3F]Lefein: You are winner!
[Cubed3] Jorge: With downloadables and the growth of the Internet in recent years it's likely that as you say there'll never be a lack of content. If Nintendo release their "Myspace/Facebook-inspired" service it could have potential to really take off.
egmshoe: TonicBH: With the cross-platform compatibility between Vista and 360, and with the mixed bag that was Shadowrun, you think other developers will try the cross-platform compatibility again?
[PS3F]Lefein: Sorry, I couldn;t resist
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: On the other side - I think the Wii will eventually get more hardcore games, because Japan is going to stop making big budget stuff for 360 and PS3, by and large. they've got to put those hardcore games somewhere!
[Slashdot] Michael: I think Shadowrun is a terrible testbed for x-play on many, many, many levels.
[Joystiq] Chris: I think they will -- I think Shadowrun would have been MUCH better received if it was $30.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I think people will try cross-platform stuf with smaller games - a game like Puzzle Fighter on XBLA could easily go across to Games for Windows stuff
[Joystiq] Chris: Oh man, puzzle fighter cross platform!
[Xboxic] Niels: Microsoft is pushing cross-platform play aggressively and can't pull back anymore, so yes it will continue. But I am curious to see where Shadowrun experiences will take the concept next
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Games where the interface doesn't have anything to do with a mouse - there's not reason not to make it cross-platform, it'll boost sales!
[Slashdot] Michael: That'd be awesome, Brandon: Buy a casual game on the 360 and play it on your PC too.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Chris: I know, right?
[Joystiq] Chris: I would love to be able to play my PC-owning friends in UNO over Live
[PS3F]Lefein: Why would you do that, though? Just get a PC game
egmshoe: OK, let's move on before we're all suggesting good cross-platform games we'd like to see... :)
[Joystiq] Chris: I don't use a PC!
egmshoe: [Gen]×??× ??µÐ: Whats is your opinons on the 360 elite and do you think they released it to late?
[Xboxic] Niels: people don't play PC's on couches with a beer and a bag of crispies lefein
[PS3F]Lefein: fair enough
[PS3F]Lefein: They could if they had the right TV ;)
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: My opinion: release one damn console for chrit's sake
[Cubed3] Jorge: We don't? Dang!
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: or christ
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: whatever
[Slashdot] Michael: What the hell is with the $120 HDD? Major Nelson's explination just doesn't soothe me, sorry.
[Xboxic] Niels: add a 'most' before my last sentence, I was ignoring hardcore gamers for a sec ;)
[Joystiq] Chris: I have no idea what hte market for the Elite is. At all. It's a bizarre product and I think they confused people more than not with it. I think it's overpriced and marketed towards an audience that doesn't exist.
[PS3F]Lefein: I was going to get an Elite until I found out they were 90nm
[Xboxic] Niels: the Elite is a stillborn child imo
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I was going to get an Elite until I remembered I bought a 360 already. Jerks.
[Joystiq] Chris: Exactly Brandon. Nail on the head.
egmshoe: Sounds like no one likes the Elite!
[Slashdot] Michael: Agreed. Have fun early adopters!
[Xboxic] Niels: it should have replaced the Premium at $399 and push the premium down, eliminating the Core
[PS3F]Lefein: I'm all about the Elite, I just dont want Red Lights
[Xboxic] Niels: now at $479 it's an overpriced paint job with an overpriced HD
[Joystiq] Chris: The audience for the Elite are people that already own a 360! And they also leave out the transfer kit as if existing 360 owners aren't upgrading ... I don't get it.
egmshoe: RedMage: So, whats the next big fad in gaming? We've seen the motion sensor now with wii, where do we go now?
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: next big fad: DINOSAURS
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: They're coming back I swear
[Slashdot] Michael: I look forward to plugging a cable directly into my motor cortex, thanks. And Dinosaurs.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I think the next big thing in gaming is collaborative stuff and online networking-related games
[Slashdot] Michael: The 'next big thing' is already here: Massively Multiplayer games.
[Joystiq] Chris: Ever see eXistenZ? That's what's next.
[Slashdot] Michael: Now they just need to hit consoles.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: not for me, but for you know...those people that like that stuff. I think that'll be the perception among developers (and CEOs especially) to the extent that it'll happen
[Xboxic] Niels: Huxley!
[Joystiq] Chris: You can't argue with Blizzard's money printing service,
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: MMOs killed my dog
[Joystiq] Chris: Was your dog a level 6 wraith?
[PS3F]Lefein: I love FFXI still, I just cant shake it
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: maybe :(
egmshoe: What else?
egmshoe: Big, future trends....
[PS3F]Lefein: Console reliability?
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: although I did play PSU and had a character named Necrofantasticus
[Slashdot] Michael: That'd be nice.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: which made me very happy
[Joystiq] Chris: As far as control gimmicks go, we keep hearing about mind controlled systems,
[Slashdot] Michael: I don't think gimmicks are going to cut it, though.
[PS3F]Lefein: EyeToyHD...
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I think people are gonna go back to working on VR
[Slashdot] Michael: People like controllers.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: immersive worlds and stuff like that, which I have no interest in
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I feel like an old man
egmshoe: Cool. OK, last question guys:
[Slashdot] Michael: It's okay grampa.
[PS3F]Lefein: What about just being able to video chat after a game?
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I'm not interested in the new trends :(
egmshoe: Nadehhh <3: In the next year, what do you think will be the most popular system?
[PS3F]Lefein: Wii
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: video chat=porn machine!
[Cubed3] Jorge: Thank goodness! My Wii is calling out for love
[Slashdot] Michael: Sales? Wii.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: DS
[Xboxic] Niels: DS :P
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: (or wii, whatever)
[Cubed3] Jorge: DS
[Slashdot] Michael: Ooops.
egmshoe: haha
[Slashdot] Michael: Yeah, DS.
[Joystiq] Chris: haha, definitely DS,
[Slashdot] Michael: Nevermind.
egmshoe: OK, besides DS.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: hehe
[Cubed3] Jorge: Touching oneself on the move
egmshoe: Console.
[Joystiq] Chris: Wii I think,
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: then wii!
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I mean...there's a lot of momentum there
[Joystiq] Chris: But popularity in terms of consoles sold only?
[Slashdot] Michael: Wii for sales, and 360 for games. There are a ton of 360 games to get excited about right now.
[Xboxic] Niels: do they actually have to be used?
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: And they're still hard to find!
[Joystiq] Chris: I think we're going to see a lot more game sales on the 360 than any other platform,
[PS3F]Lefein: I think any reasonable parant will be getting the Wii this holidays, just because its better to gamble 250 on a system rather than pay online fees or upgrad ethe TV for PS3
egmshoe: OK, how about in 5-8 years from now? Assuming they can all get to that 10-year point in the cycle.
[Xboxic] Niels: saleswise the Wii
[Slashdot] Michael: And all I care about on the Wii is Mario, Samus, and Smash Bros.
[Xboxic] Niels: but in gameplay time 360
[PS3F]Lefein: But for those that do have HDTV, the PS3 will rock them
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: 5-8 years...the PC? haha
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: ORrrrrrrrrrrrrr maybe the 360
[Joystiq] Chris: Yeah, Vista will finall catch on then
[Slashdot] Michael: In 5-8 years I'd say the Xbox 720. I bet Microsoft will already be on to their next system.
[Xboxic] Niels: I think this generation will end in a full draw with a slight lead for Sony: 33/34/33 per cent
[PS3F]Lefein: Think they will cut and run with the 360, too?
egmshoe: I mean amongst the current systems
[Cubed3] Jorge: Will likely be 360/Wii on the home front, and most definitely DS on the portable
egmshoe: Wii, PS3, 360...who wins in 8 years?
[PS3F]Lefein: You guys really underestimate PS3
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: that question is too ahrd
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: *hard
egmshoe: Stop saying DS!! :)
[Xboxic] Niels: in 8 years we'll be playing Xbox 720, PS4 and Wiimore no doubt
[Cubed3] Jorge: None do, the industry collapses when people go outside and have fun!
[Joystiq] Chris: I think the 360 will be controlling the lion's share of game sales, even if they're behind in hardware.
[Slashdot] Michael: I'm gonna go with the Wii. I think the 'casual focus' has worked well enough that they'll keep up a head of steam for the duration of this generation, sales wise.
[PS3F]Lefein: The PS3 will rule once more
[Xboxic] Niels: I'm with Chris there yeah
egmshoe: Intertesting...very diverse views on that.
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I think 360 and Wii. Lefain can make us all eat our hats if he's right.
[Cubed3] Jorge: But realistically - 360, Wii, PS3
egmshoe: But you're all wrong. Answer is: Nintendo DS.
egmshoe: I'm just kidding.
[Slashdot] Michael: Heh.
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: ok...
[Cubed3] Jorge: Hardy ha ha
egmshoe: OK, it looks like time's up.
[Joystiq] Chris: DS Lite or Phat?
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: Sorry I was late!
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: i think that is about all we have time for!
[Slashdot] Michael: Wii wins for sales ... but I'll still be playing Mass Effect.
[Cubed3] Jorge: As mario says, Hooray!
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: I was working, f'realz
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: Thank you everyone for showing up at the Xfire Debate Club
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: There is still so much to be said on this topic, maybe we will revisit it again in a few months when time might tell us something.
[Xboxic] Niels: yeah Brandon, spanking time now
egmshoe: It was a fun talk, and I appreciate all of you participating. And thanks for having me on, Xfire!
[Slashdot] Michael: Thanks for having us. :)
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: We will be posting the transcript within the next 48 hours.
[Cubed3] Jorge: Thanks for hosting it, my Nintendo 64 has gone cold however :(
[PS3F]Lefein: FFXIII will prove you guys wrong ^^
[Cubed3] Jorge: Fantastic!
(GDM/Gama) Brandon: It's been fun! DS rules!
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: Next Debate Club is Best Classes of WoW. June 19. Page will be up tomorrow. It is the event kicking off the Stride Cup Finals Festival (www.xfire.com/stride)
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: Thank you again to all of our guests and to Shoe for moderating!
Please visit their sites to show support, and also because they are just awesome sites!
[Slashdot] Michael: Pally ftw. :)
[Joystiq] Chris: SAN DIMAS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES!
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: Clan invites will go out within a week
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: See you next time!!
[Cubed3] Jorge: I bid you fellas goodnight, thanks for opportunity
* [Slashdot] Michael waves.
egmshoe: bye!