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Xfire Debate Club 1st Meeting: The Burning Crusade
January 31st, 2007 (Open Debate Transcript)
[Xfire] SDaria: *****QUESTION*****--FIRST QUESTION: I think - or at least I hope - that everyone here can agree that Blizzard really did an amazing job with Burning Crusade. But is there anything about it that left any of you disappointed? If there was one thing that you wish Blizzard had done differently with this expansion, what would it be?
Medros: I wish it would take longer to get to 70 myself
ravar: the dark portal lvl requirement
Sanctimonia: oh this is fun
Black Ranger: Yes.
nexuscrysix: I would like more of a challenge to level 0, it took only a few hours to get thier
oplinger: faster leveling..im tired of looking at nagrand..
loch.alias: I wish that druids got a more defining move than flight form....
Sanctimonia: they should of main the lvl cap higher
Medros: You can get past the portal pre 58
[Toast]sleepyperson2: i wish i had it
[Asguard]ThePres: Deffenitly the dark portal requirments
{TLS}Angel: A new class or two
djpharoh9101: its only ten levels it should be long at all
St(+)rck: The additonal content is phenomenal however I feel the graphics of WoW are being outdated
Medros: I have a 51 in HH now
pinkt4c0: gear upgrades were less then expected
AOD_Spec_LeChuck: i would really like to see an all buff class... like a bard or something like that
googleplexdude: lv. 0?
Black Ranger: The Dark portal level req should be lowered
A-Train: Im actually impressed that BC got up and running very smoothly from the start Blizzard deserves a lot of credit for that.
Coen: till now, i like it so i dont have anything to change on
googleplexdude: there is NO lv. 0!
albinojason: they should have updated priest a bit, they are falling behind when it comes to healing against hybrid classes such as druids and shamens.
indica: more emphasis on parties
soberphoenix1973: I wish that blizzard was able to address a way to enhance grinding so that it was more of a team participation thing
[Asguard]ThePres: Also leveling should go a little faster gets boring grinding for hours to go up a level
djpharoh9101: i hate parying
bahamutbbob: I'm pretty happy with my experience so far SDaria (did I spell that right? hard to scroll up in xfire chats >>US
nexuscrysix: but then again its an expansion, so they don't have to make it a god-like games
Black Ranger: Yes.
Coen: I think the lvl requirement for dark portal is usefull, how to survive in Outland on lvl 10?
St(+)rck: I agree with priest healing , needs a little buff
windsamurai: /agree the graphics are bringing WoW down, next time there should be more of a technically focused update
Klaak: i think alliance should have gotten a 12-18 dungeon like ragefire chasm
googleplexdude: i would like a lv. 99, like final fantasy.
..? wMute ?..: As a mostly "mainstream gamer", ie, someone who spends a lot of time with Sports games and Console games, I find that there's a certain lack of "drawing power" in terms of other features that may attract new users rather than cater to current WoW users and other MMORPG users.
djpharoh9101: i fell that every character should be able to work on its own
loch.alias: The graphics are what make the game unique.
[r/uho]Gluesticks: yah graphics should get better
loch.alias: Don't change em.
indica: partying is the whole prupose of mmorpg's
Cowpie/Izuzo: I definently think blizz should have made the 60% mount 100%. I mean, its a flying mount and your paying 1000g for it.... BUT ITS 60%!! Its too slow
djpharoh9101: be self suffcient
apolloiv: I personally think that a new class would of made the game. We got the shaman class on allliance horde got Pally but if you've played on either side, you know what to do. A new class would of changed how you would group and raid. This would also add new armor and such for the hybrid classes which would of been interesting(thinking that it is an hybrid)
Prime-Target-Finder: BC scenery and mobs are AWESOME
[Asguard]ThePres: The quests for dranei are pretty sweet thoughliket he totem quest
nexuscrysix: kinda hard to xchange grphics with DX10 just coming out
Black Ranger: That's why I think that the level cap should be lowered. Because of the really, really high XP requirements for the higher levels
nexuscrysix: change*
djpharoh9101: but sometimes you dont wanna or no one is going in your direction
TAW_Toecutter [S2 1CO]: I think Blizzard did quite a god job, but I agree the time to get to 70 could have been a bit longer. I am also very excited about the amount of Raiding content to look forward to.
St(+)rck: I really the love new quests put into BC, much more fun, innovative and creative
St(+)rck: And humorous
Sir. Jiggly-Dins: yea i like the elekk quest with the draenai
Dendei: This may be a little biased, but i feel Engineering really could have shined in this expansion. As an engineer myself, I feel that compared to the additions of the other professions, we got the short end of the stick. With such focus put on Ethereal technology in Outland, its a mystery to me why they didnt go further into it.
djpharoh9101: especially in WOW
windsamurai: i like the styleof graphics, its just that they are a bit old
»Çøkê«: anyone play rs
loch.alias: The flying quest in Hellfire was enjoyable
djpharoh9101: some mmorpgs partying is okay
Blade: I wish it would take longer to get from 60-70 and there would be more land to explore for them to say Burning Crusade is like a World of Warcraft 2 and not an expansion
[r/uho]Gluesticks: i think blizzard should have added more pally gear to horde side and shammie gear for alliance
loch.alias: Droping bombs ftw? i mean who doesn't like that
Black Ranger: Agreed.
muridin: I think that blood elves and dranie should have had a low lvl duneagon equivlent to deadmines and shadowfang keep in bouth ghostlands and in bloodmyst isle
Sanctimonia: they did a great job making silvermoon city not another UC that is for sure
St(+)rck: Yes, all the flying quests are very fun too
[RH] Arizth: Engineering isn't made for practicality, though. Its made for the shrinkers and bombs...and stuff.
djpharoh9101: but in this one you need to able to fight for yourself
A-Train: In terms of what should have been done different I agree with mike quest variety should be improved, hellfire the starting zone had innovative quests but the other zones I've noticed mostly fetch and kill quests.
Ardhiel: I wish thet had included more of a mergance into the WoW story line from BC, so that you wouldn't have to burn through the lowbie levels and could level to say 20 and then continues from the level 20 areas onward in WoW, but could still play the lowbie areas if you'd like.
Judge: I would say "quit making the rich, richer", in other words many classes that had no problem with melee classes for instance, instead of gaining abilies to counter other spell casters or such things, gained more melee control abilites. Certainly there was some consideration, like mana shield now absorbing spell damage, but it seems that many of the root balance issues went unadressed, I also feel that warriors received little to no attention in terms of balance.
[Asguard]ThePres: Expansions usually do better then whole new games expessialy for MMO's
soberphoenix1973: also, it seems like the high end potions are left a little bare yet
{TLS}Angel: speak of that somewhere else
Coen: oh yeah, the zones own in Outland. especially Zangarmarsh imo
seig03: I think a few things could have done better , a few things: lvl 80 cap would have been nice, not to mention a few more things for the low level characters, like a new class or another craft besides jewelcrafting.
t3h pwnzor: The only think i would want blizzard to change is the warrior class. We are now out-tanked by pallie's, just about any class can own us in PvP (exept for rogues in most cases =P )
Black Ranger: Agreed with seig
TAW_Toecutter [S2 1CO]: Although, I feel like we are more a "part of the story" in Outland than I felt in Azeroth.
Prime-Target-Finder: they shoulda put new low lvl instances in
bahamutbbob: I agree with mike about professions by the way ^^
{TLS}Angel: Definitely agree with Pwnzor
Judge: Yeah I agree with toecutter
nexuscrysix: I would like to see more creative proffesions that don't all seem to have the samwe axtion
djpharoh9101: i like the minigame idea
Freyar: As far as my dissapointments with The Burning Crusade, I'm mainly dissapointed in the level requirements. Yes I understand the importance of being a level that would be able survive in the area, but it's still my responsibility to stay alive.
AOD_Spec_LeChuck: a new proffesion would be nice yea. jewel crafting and something else
Dendei: While it isnt ment to be a practical profession, it still does feel lacking. Im not asking that we simply be able to sell our gear to others, but that the profession be worth it to ourselves. At the moment it doesnt feel that much like it is
faB|-=[4LL3N]=-: the minigames is a good idea
ravar: didn't they put a low level instance in silver moon
[Asguard]ThePres: Minigames such as what though?
Black Ranger: Minigames would be fun
DGMurdockIII: ok
Klaak: i'm still wishing that WoW would support a more player oriented economy, more focused on craftable items rather than raids
[r/uho]Gluesticks: i think blizzard should have had a instance in teh blood elf and dranei 10-20 areas
windsamurai: another thing that bugs me is the lack of ingame player community establishments, such as player cities and such, id really like to see that in a future update
Sir. Jiggly-Dins: fishing minigames would rule
lennyvolk: Play Puzzle Priates a bit Mike?
Kafziel: they should fix some bugs too, the water elemental bug its a shame.. but the game itself its great.. and the flying mount sounds amazing x)
muridin: i wish a few more areas would have been opend up IE nothrend hyjal the glenies area and the places beside BS
djpharoh9101: that would be nice to see
kirnkaterre: I'm really quite impressed with the continuation of the lore from the standpoint of the questline. I'd like to see a bit more development on the official Blizz site about that.
Sanctimonia: Outland does rule
[RH] Arizth: Engineering: The only place you cna get explosive sheep. What else does it need?
A-Train: I agree gary the graphical quality and design of outlands never gets old.
djpharoh9101: player communities
[Xfire]TwiceUzi: "t3h pwnzor: The only think i would want blizzard to change is the warrior class. We are now out-tanked by pallie's, just about any class can own us in PvP (exept for rogues in most cases =P )" Don't you think that pally mana dependence and therefore group downtime increases make them less attractive as tanks?
{TLS}Angel: Ah, fishing isnt the most exciting profession currently
apolloiv: The art style in the expansion is unrivaled, my only wish was the game got a bit more of a face lift all around instead of just the new BE race
AOD_Spec_LeChuck: like gary says... also the charecters look old compared the new races
djpharoh9101: true
Dendei: True....the sheep do have their uses
djpharoh9101: lol
ravar: true
A-Train: much better then the borefest that were azeroth zones ala barrens.
[Asguard]ThePres: The new races do seem to have a more futuristic look ion things mainly the dranei though
nexuscrysix: WOW had some secrets lin it, linken, the boy with the cat and more. I'm hoping to see BC have some of thoese
windsamurai: but it looks mcuh more pleasing on that note
-{GLS}- Seper: its disheartning to see the old game (pre60) being left behind and not taken care of at all
[RH] Arizth: Engineering is made for either explosives or beams that annoy the hell out of you enemys. It's a PvP proffession, not a PvE
apolloiv: I really think a Rainbow6, World of Warcraft would rune the feel fo the game
pinkt4c0: Blizzard reuses WAYYYYY to many older graphics, as in lightforge jsut recolored or valor recolored
[RH] Arizth: Though I amdit...
windsamurai: exactly
loch.alias: I'm personally refreshed that druids are now balanced.
..? wMute ?..: There's been an influx of publicity in the news media concerning Social Games, such as Second Life, Project Entropia, There, and the recent MTV social game. I think that WoW shares the same aspects of a "metaverse" with the added bonus of a higher production budget and "gameplay" in the traditional gaming sense. it would be interesting to see a wider range of Social Gaming features
St(+)rck: I simply love all the little things and humor that Blizzard has put into WoW, they really do love what they do
nexuscrysix: I do wondeer if a new WOW will incorperatwe DX10
kuremia: Yes, pre 60 should really get looked over. It's as if Blizzard almost abandoned it (besides the new starting areas, of course)
windsamurai: more newb content!
St(+)rck: Like Harris Pilton in Shatrah City
loch.alias: Before druids got owned, i'm glad druids are balanced now.
oplinger: id like to see the iron forge tram actually travel north to south on my minimap....but im easy to please >.>
loch.alias: Druids are alot stronger due to mangle and bear tanking
djpharoh9101: they have too much manpower i think they can pull both
spoon: druids are op now
muridin: i wonder why the dranie in shatarath city say "the naru have not forgoten us" when they stand next to adal
spoon: there healing is better than priest
Coen: I really wanna see what is going to happen with Dalaran
Judge: Paladins make very good tanks and dont have to worry about the first 3 sunders missing or something like that, as there is no such thing as holy resistance and they are far more likely to get and maintain aggro in the beginnig
soberphoenix1973: Why does it seem to just add content to the end game instead of working on the middle game
{TLS}Angel: Ah, locks are overpowered
nexuscrysix: Though it will be later since only 2 gamnes have it and people want ot see it firsthand
windsamurai: the subscriber base is goingup and up, they should put more newb stuff in
kirnkaterre: I'm not sure that the graphics at a hgher resolution would make sense in the lower areas. For those of us who have a computer that works like a block of cheese and a pencil, it's hard enough to play already, lol.
ravar: i don't the lower raids
-{GLS}- Seper: the problem my friends and I aggreed on was once you finish the new starting areas its the same game
spoon: there tankin is better than warriors
[Asguard]ThePres: Wow does speed up with a graphics card such as the 8800's with Dx10 but thats a goo point
Black Ranger: In my opinion, though, I think that the tradeskills need more options for the lower levels. One can't really peddle their enchantments if they're too low of a level because no one wants what they're selling. If blizzard added more enchants for the lower levels that were actually demanded, then people could be more self-supportive in the economy, and thus turning them away to buying gold on ebay.
Sanctimonia: 40 man needed scaled back
-{GLS}- Seper: nothing has changed mid game
Dendei: Well if it is to be considered a PVP profession, i think it should be a little more reliable. At the moment, our devices fail rate makes them almost useless. While clones in other professions, such as the net that was added to tailors, works without fail
TAW_Toecutter [S2 1CO]: I am also wondering what Blizzard is planning for the future. Did anyone else see the note on the box about system requirements may change over time due to programming? Makes me wonder how much better it might look in the future?
loch.alias: Druids do not need a nerf, we're just finally balanced and everyone is mad we're not free HKs anymore.
seig03: Another problem is that it really hurt the economy of WoW it became so easy for low levels yo make money by selling thing like copper bars for insanely high prices.
Tyranuus\\\\Alex: Its been said before that WoW will not be getting a graphical change any time soon, however I did ask whether this would occur at all myself on the EU forums.
uL*NoFear32: which would be good for a noob WOW or Guild Wars
[Xfire] SDaria: *****QUESTION*****NEXT QUESTION: How do you feel about the scaling-down of the dungeons from the big 40-man instances to the smaller five, ten and 25-man runs? Why do you think Blizzard scaled back from 40-mans, and do you think this will be a good thing for the game?
Sanctimonia: just way too many poeple
Black Ranger: Yeah
Black Ranger: Its' hard to gather that many
St(+)rck: I think that it was a fantastic decision to change the Raid limit to 25, 40 was simply too much
apolloiv: Oh lord i love the new 25 raids. Not being in a 40 man raid guild it keeps it personal and while not easier, but a lot more efficient and open to the casual player
loch.alias: To many people in this group is how i feel.
[r/uho]Gluesticks: they should update to old world with many new graphics or skins and maybe a few new quests in teh mid range levels (20-50) with armor and/or weapon rewards for the new classes to each side
A-Train: My main problem with expansion is that lvling from 40-60 on a new toon is just such a boring drag now compared to the fun that is the new race starting zones and outlands.
kirnkaterre: Definitely a plus to have instances that are fewer in plyaer number.
Sanctimonia: it does better with a smaller team
Ardhiel: It took way too many people to do that and too long
Prime-Target-Finder: scale downs are awesome
[RH] Arizth: 40 man scaleing down was made to accomodate those who are NOT HArdcore *Lol, Raid nao! Nao* players
Kafziel: nah, locks still are the overpower xP they got spells with great damage.. and a HP that can be compared to a Warrior
value: Yeah i like that don't have to gather 40 people
Medros: I think they did it to give a buff to the majority of the players, who are not nd game raiders with hours of time on their hands
djpharoh9101: 40 is way too many people
St(+)rck: With 40 one person was bound to be afk, one disconnected, etc
-{GLS}- Seper: scale downs are awesome
Prime-Target-Finder: especially for the smaller not so hardcore raiding guilds....
kirnkaterre: rAcreed, Sacntimonia.
windsamurai: well, rlly because its a bit better for people to play on thier own with smaller dungeon sizes
ravar: what about when you don't have anyone above 60 then your probally going to die
St(+)rck: 25 is much more reasonable and gives more emphasis to each person
nexuscrysix: Nice, it allows the whole team to be easier to organize.
muridin: i feal it is better because it gives a better chance for everyone to get a pice of gear
oplinger: i love non-40-man raids, they are alot easier to manage, and theres less people to screw up
[Asguard]ThePres: To many people and also its more personal and you get more loot with the smaller raids also they can be longer with not as many drop-outs
faB|-=[4LL3N]=-: the smaller instances are really good idea i think, cause even people that dont want to play with some guilds can gather quite qood stuff
-{GLS}- Seper: but it would be nice to have the option to go to higher lvl groups for better group
{TLS}Angel: 40 mans are too big
soberphoenix1973: yes, I feel that it will be a good thing in scaling back on the raids because it helps players to work together a lot better and als helps with lag
-{GLS}- Seper: gear*
nexuscrysix: 40 seems to high, but 25 is simplier
..? wMute ?..: I think it would be great to have a "random" raid feature, perhaps 4 groups of 10 people.
Coen: Due the 25 man raids, there can be more guild runs to 1 raid, so it's cool
[r/uho]Gluesticks: yah 25 mans are an improvement
Blade: I think this is a great feature in the game, Now guilds do not have to strive for over 40 members and keep track of as much DKP. The level cap being raised to 70 is another reason the raids were probably scaled down from 40 to 25 man
Medros: Yeah, with 40 people it was too hard to get gear too
-{GLS}- Seper: some people are willing to take the time to get 40mans together
St(+)rck: Better gear is also alwqays a plus :-)
albinojason: I think the new content going towards huge instances is a plus, i mean i spent 4+ hours some nights trying to get a piece of a tier, and even then i wasnt truely given a chance to get something. I hope this works out for the better, less time and easy to get, but not super easy gear
Klaak: i am very upset at the decrease from 40-man raids. now guilds are cutting down the people, forcing people to join different guilds. just look at all the random guildless people wandering around. i think it broke up a lot of the social aspects of the game...along with removing the LFG channel.
apolloiv: I mean really, your drinking buddies back at the bar if you say you killed some dragon with 40 people, 25 is another story
AOD_Spec_LeChuck: it can be hard for some people to have big groups of people inside the dungieons. since wow is a game for noobs and pros alike its good that they turned it down to 25. that way everryone can play and have fun. while being challenged
kuremia: I actually like how they scaled it down to 25. Now each person has to really focus on his/her job for the raid to work out. You really feel like a Hero who is downing this awesome foe.
TAW_Toecutter [S2 1CO]: The scaling down is the best new feature, IMO. The ability to do an instance so quickly is great; and for my guild we will be able to run 2 25-mans a night when we all hit 70. I love it!!
Medros: I prefer the 25 man raid idea, and hope to see hwo it pans out
A-Train: Agree 25 man raids seem like a better way to get more people involved
Dendei: As a member of a fairly casual guild, i love this change. I have always found myself having more fun in raids such as Zul'Gurub or Ahn'Qiraj than i did in a high pressure 40 man raid to MC. It makes things feel more special, and makes your role in the group more important
windsamurai: 40 man instances are pretty much very rare for people in small guilds and such
Freyar: 40 could take hours to prepare, and even plan. Although the limitation was at 40, the limitation to 25 means that the raid is designed for that number of people, and thus may end up being a better instance, although the downside to that can still of course be that lacking of organization. It's kind of a double-edged sword here.
{TLS}Angel: some people just dont have the time for 40 man raids
nexuscrysix: as long as the battles aren't insane, then 25 teams are possible and way more effective
Medros: I enjoy the ZG runs, so I think 25 will be just right
..? wMute ?..: Perhaps "competetive" raids, such as 20 vs 20 with one goal. first to kill a beast wins the prize, or something along those lines
lennyvolk: Probably too much pain and protest about the amount of time that is asorbed with gathering and organizing 39 other players to accomplish one task. I can't think of any jobs where there is that much demand for micromanagement over such a constrained amount of time.
apolloiv: I agree with the AQ point
Black Ranger: Because so many players want to be able to head their own guild, that makes the forces "thinly spread", so to speak. Beyond guilds, there are few ways to organize a successful raid. I mean, just walking up to someone on the street asking if they play WoW seems a little awkward and weird.
kirnkaterre: I wonder what the participants feel the impact will be on the big uber raiding guilds?
Medros: I agree Freyar
Dendei: I think its a decent comprimise to still allow raiding, but also allow it to be accessable to some who could never have the chance befor
djpharoh9101: i agree with infernal
[Asguard]ThePres: Really Big Kirn
david13gaspar: 25 Man raids are probably one of the best changes because it takes a lot of time getting 40 people...
Blade: Like mike said, guilds can split up groups now so people can now people can have more fun doing more than one raid at a time so other's do not have to wait a week or so for what is happening
windsamurai: yeah, guild wars has pvp missions and thing like hat, maybe wow should put some in
[RH] Arizth: The bigger guilds will either dela with, or split up over, it.
St(+)rck: 25 just seems to be the perfect number
oplinger: smaller raids will really help my guild get going, even if they are still far off, it makes it easier to get my head around a 25 man, rather than trying to find 40 casters.
Medros: 25 man you can actually get them going without weeks of planning in smaller guilds and big
Sanctimonia: even in big guilds like me i am in a 53 man guild and we usally only do 10 man raids becuase most of us like to be in outworld
Judge: I think this was one of the most positive changes they made. 25 mans call for more effort from every member of the raid. In addition Having 25 people in a raid will probably add to the diversity of the raid if that makes any sense. For instance you might see more hybrid classes or "off-specs". High quality loot was often unattainable for many people who could not get into a 40 man raiding guild where as putting together a 5 or 10 man of friends is much easier.
bahamutbbob: I'm kinda 50/50 on the 40/25 man stuff, I mean, it sucks that guilds that built themselves around the 40 core people need to expand or /gremove, but at the same time, it's easier to coordinate 25 people than 40
nexuscrysix: sometghing like 5 man is a wonder, it allows a small group to become acusstomed and they will be able to know eah other and plan for 25 ppl raids
[Asguard]ThePres: They could still do what they wanted with MC and such but going to outlands they have to change there strategies
Klaak: i do like the 20 man raid idea but i think that is the smallest any raid should be. 10 and 5 man end game instances just make it too easy for people to become isolated and socialize with only a couple people
ravar: yeah but bigger guilds can no longer group with most of the players who would normally go
albinojason: i hope the 10 mans are as good as ubrs ( that is still my favoirte instance)
Judge: However it will require more skill so has appeal for both casual and hardcore players
Dendei: Plus set up is much easier on the guilds. We no longer have to worry about getting together so many people for a raid, and hoping they all stay
{TLS}Angel: yeah, 40 mans are just too big, most of the time you dont even know anyone else
Black Ranger: Alternatively, though, one should have the option of having 25-man or 40-man raids, kind of like the difference between Normal and Heroic dungeons. The 40-man raids would be harder, yes, but they would give more loot.
djpharoh9101: i like the isolation
windsamurai: lol
TAW_Toecutter [S2 1CO]: That was an excellent point--scaling down to 25-mans gives more Guilds a chance to see the raid content.
djpharoh9101: i like to able to run off on my own
Blade: 25 man instances would also require more strategy and more cooperation with members, being that there are less members of course
Black Ranger: Agreed with blade
{TLS}Angel: agreed
ravar: agreed
Sanctimonia: everquest is a dying breed that is for sure
Judge: yeah raid content is deffinetly more accessible as a 25 man then a 40 man
[RH] Arizth: Isolation lets you avoid random nubs who leave mid-instance or cause wipes. It's not ALL bad.
-{GLS}- Seper: i would much rather have my guild as a whole involved instead of kicking out the new players so the ones who have been running the instances for awhile can get there gear without hassle
soberphoenix1973: I have been soloing mainly for leveling requirements, but I want to help out my guild mates by starting off in small 5 man raids
Medros: lol # Bill
windsamurai: /agree
-{GLS}- Seper: it screws out the noobs
apolloiv: 25 mans would also make gear distribution a lot better
Judge: loot distribution will be much better as well
AOD_Spec_LeChuck: our guild is a little small... so a 40 man raid would be VERY impossible. im looking foward to our raid
[Asguard]ThePres: Also less chance you get peopel in teh raid that dont know what they are doing and less confusion
{TLS}Angel: 40 mans can just rush in and try to kill with numbers
-{GLS}- Seper: and everyone is a noob once
nexuscrysix: at 40 it felt like areas were overcrowded and like not a lot were doing thier job. lower makes it easier to know everyone's strengths and weaknesses
Sanctimonia: i agree with gary
ravar: they should still have some 40 man raids in outland
[RH] Arizth: Noob? No. Newb? Yes
Sanctimonia: 10 is just ri9ght
A-Train: Yes Gary Karazhan is very well done.
djpharoh9101: that sucks when you kill with sheer numbers
Kafziel: 25 man its better.. can be more organized.. the new instances are very technical.. will be a good thing imo
nexuscrysix: especially with newbs
muridin: gear is helpfull but dose not win raids organization and stagys and geting ppl to listen to you wins raids and its eaiser to get 25 ppl to listen to you then it is 40 (genrely)
Dendei: Though for a bigger guild, i dont imagine this would be much of a problem. I do see where this could be an issue for those larger guilds, as they would probably stress to get things working in a civil order. They would have to turn people back as their raids fill up much faster than they ever did before
apolloiv: so you wouldn't have to sit in front of a screen for mounths for one peice of armor because of DKPS
Klaak: loot is a non-factor imo. the instance runs are more about the teamwork and content than the loot
kirnkaterre: Chris makes a good point about the framerate.
djpharoh9101: there should always be alittle strategy
Judge: statistically speaking in a 40 man you have a 1 in 40 chance to get any given piece of loot
Freyar: @Blade that's my point of view on this. Although a 40 man raid may be fun, the amount of time taken to actually put it together, organize attack plans and the like just seems to be astronomical. However with the limit be 25, it means that that particular raid/objective is balanced for that.
windsamurai: too many ppl playing at once in 40 man missions
Klaak: if you want loot, go pvp by yourself.
TAW_Toecutter [S2 1CO]: It will also help even out the High-end PvP, since you won't have a "naxx-geared" player instanly crushing those without the better gear
windsamurai: just doesnt feel right
Ardhiel: ThePres, that's not smart because you will always have newbies trying out raids.
A-Train: What makes it great is that its puggable so players not part of big raiding guilds are able to clear it.
Medros: I would have to say that the lowered dungeon caps definitely bring out the cooperation more
[r/uho]Gluesticks: that is a preety good point about how it speeds up framerat
Black Ranger: Yeah. Just before BC came out, before I knew that the raid number was going down from 40, I was honestly worrying about how I was going to get my tier armor. I didn't know that many people who played WoW, and it'd be weird asking someone outside my guild if they were going to do a raid with me.
{TLS}Angel: Yeah, people who have jobs and go to school just dont have time most of the time to do a full 40 man raid
albinojason: yea my comp gets a big boost everytime i go into an instance now, i like it =D
faB|-=[4LL3N]=-: Is it worthy to buy BC right now when im only on level 20 or wait to lvl 60?
djpharoh9101: right
Sanctimonia: PVP went better too
djpharoh9101: i dont
Judge: loot in pve is very often more desirable then loot from pvp, and certain equipment slots cant be filled, for instance trinkets, in pvp
Val727 (aka lucian): I would
djpharoh9101: hell im in school now
A-Train: So karazhan lets more casual players get atleast 2 pieces of tier 4
[Xfire] SDaria: *****QUESTION*****NEXT QUESTION: I’m seeing a lot of Draenei and Blood Elf players these days. Given that they have such powerful racials, are the original game races going to be neglected by new players, or will the novelty of the new races wear off as time goes by?
Klaak: i don't believe the new racials are amazing
Black Ranger: It'll probably wear off
-{GLS}- Seper: the new races are good
apolloiv: Oh they will wear off, trust me
windsamurai: possibly
Prime-Target-Finder: novelty of new races will ear off
[Asguard]ThePres: They will wear off
{TLS}Angel: Ah, the new races are going to get old sometime
-{GLS}- Seper: but they will become just like any other race
soberphoenix1973: they will wear off
oplinger: itll wear off, just like it did with all the races, and amazing racials? >> no.
windsamurai: they are a bit too fancy
djpharoh9101: its gonna wear off
Sanctimonia: i agree
david13gaspar: Wear off...
ravar: probally but not for awhie
Coen: I guess they will wear off
apolloiv: I have no intrest in playin either race, awsome racial or not
TAW_Toecutter [S2 1CO]: I think the novelty will wear off in time; but it's going to be a while.
Klaak: night elf shadowmeld is by far the best racial
[RH] Arizth: Novelty will wear off. Dreanai and Blood Elves will go away.
St(+)rck: I think that the BE's and Draeni's were a great addition to WoW and maybe be a bit overplayed later on
rycher88: i love WoW
[r/uho]Gluesticks: i think so the new races with definatly wear off soon i mean how many are actually going to even hit 40 not many
lennyvolk: The orignonal races are by no means dead. I would be a fool to abandon my undead with Will of the Forsaken.
kuremia: It is inevitable that the boom in rerolls will wear down, but the new races are pretty cool.
AOD_Spec_LeChuck: its just a thing now... its like fur jackets they will get old.
djpharoh9101: hell once i get burning crusade im just gonna go to the old ones first
Coen: the racial of the belfs are kinda sucky
windsamurai: the next expansion has to have spruce up the original races
St(+)rck: WE will be seeing a lot more BE's and Draeni's then all the other races soon.
Sanctimonia: people are going to go back to there lvl 40 troll mage and get him up to 70
rycher88: gues wat everyone
Prime-Target-Finder: i reckon that after some time people will so how many damn Belfs and Draeni there are and eventually get bored with playing such a common race
{TLS}Angel: People will play what they feel comfortable playing. Its not going to be based on appearance. Its going to be based on what they are comfortable playing.
Val727 (aka lucian): I believe the Blood Elves will become the majority race of the horde for a while, kind of like NE's were to alliance...
rycher88: I LOVE WOW
[Asguard]ThePres: The racials are good but they get a bit boring after a while an move to something else. Like any other race or class that comes out.
Coen: compared to most alliance racials
albinojason: They will even back out sooner or later, they are like a new toy everyone wants to try it but some will stick with it and others will go back to what they had
googleplexdude: i think it will take a while for the races to wear off i think.
bahamutbbob: my old old guild, that got torn apart by the former guild leader, rerolled for the expansion with 18 or 19 draenei on a PvP server, they wanted to have as many +hit auras as possible
Judge: Im sure the novelty will wear off, but the blood elf racial abiliies for instance I believe will continue to draw new players, especially considering how much everyone seems to love elves and they are the only elf on the horde
Black Ranger: On the first day of BC, I tried making a blood elf on Wildhammer, my resident server, and the entire place was packed. Just now when I went back there, it was almost empty.
djpharoh9101: will there be another
rycher88: WOW OWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNSSSSSSSSS
St(+)rck: But the addition of them did provide efficient content to an old game
oplinger: people just like them because they are new, just liek clothes, they will get old, and people will move on
djpharoh9101: i think its done now
Freyar: I think that the novelty of the new races will of course wear off. Especially for newer players that havn't had the amount of time to actually use them all. The only thing I'm afraid of really is the kind of balancing and equipment available for the two new races. That's not to say I don't like playing them.
googleplexdude: im actually not sure if theyll wear off.
faB|-=[4LL3N]=-: i love drenei cause they look awesome
apolloiv: But for new players they may not know all this stuff, arcane torrent may not sound as good as oh...gnomes
Medros: I agree with Gary, by comparison to the BE and Drae, the old racials are weak
windsamurai: yeah
{TLS}Angel: like i said, appearance means nothing to most people
Dendei: Its always possible, these new races have the trial and error of the other races behind them. There are other reasons to play the other races however for either side, which may be what makes things a little more diverse. If someone wishes to play a specific profession, they wont always find them with the new races.
Sanctimonia: bill is dead on
Kafziel: well.. to start off, they're both new races and everyone wants to try those new things.. in the end those racials are not THAT overpower as many people say. imo
djpharoh9101: unless they release a new warcraft game to forward the story its pretty mouch it for now
[RH] Arizth: Weak, maybe. Still useful? Yes
ravar: most blood elves and draenie power level and leave slow levlers in the dust so evenutally they wil wear off
Medros: Perception?? Worthless compared to the Drae HoT
Sanctimonia: warlock are a rare class to have now
[RH] Arizth: Diplomacy > most other racials right now
windsamurai: /agree
oplinger: listen to the man, NERF WARLOCKS!
kirnkaterre: The storyline behind the "old races" goes back into past iterations of WoW. I wonder if any of the participants feels more connected to the older races because of past gameplay?
Judge: BE racials are insane compared to that of say, trolls or dwarves
A-Train: What they need to do is improve old race startings zones because the be and dranei zones are much better done and elimanate needless travel making lvling from 1-20 very fast.
Tyranuus\\\\Alex: I think it would have been better to have kept both 40 and 25 mans, rather than relegating 40 to the past (and the old endgame), whilst keeping the new stuff. 25 man is good for several reasons, and large guilds will deal with it, however fewer players mean that larger guilds may effectively be forced to split themselves in to, and half the fun of raiding is a social element. It would also have enabled them to focus on two kinds of raids - strike team, and more epic feeling raids.
albinojason: i agree on that NERF LCOKS!
..? wMute ?..: In comparison to the game Guild Wars, which introduced different Clases during their upgrades, there was an issue concerning overpopularity. there was a lack of balance in parties because there were too many Assassins or Ritualists, or Dervshes. I think the issue is less problematic in wow, where there's less stress on the demands of party needs
muridin: true
pinkt4c0: I believe that the new races will be just as plentiful as the old ones, people will find that all the racials will be good and will eventually see that, and roll those races
bahamutbbob: Gary, come duel me then say that omg omg omg omg :P
[Asguard]ThePres: Likely hood of a new warcraft game is low I am sure
nexuscrysix: i only really enjoy playing as blood elf, thier popular since they give players a new feel. Horde creatuers are monsterous but the blood elf gives as a dark elf character. Dranei are not like the civvilized characters of the Alliance, so it changes things up
soberphoenix1973: one of the important things about why I played this game in the first place is because of friends
Prime-Target-Finder: LOCKS DONT NEED A DAMN NERF!
windsamurai: yeah
{TLS}Angel: locks are overpowered
djpharoh9101: they should keep every class balanced
djpharoh9101: so definetly nerf warlocks
[RH] Arizth: Locks are NOT overpowered. This is coming from a Paladin/Warrior
*Team ߊ.|Nigh7ma®³: Locks are fine the way they are, you are just underpowered :P
[RH] Arizth: YOu just need to learn to cut cloth
SaintAvalon: Everyone says nerf warlocks, how about you look at the filp side... They are almost perfect, they have 3 viable tree's and spells to match.
oplinger: sure they do
soberphoenix1973: however, I would not like to give up my druid because of the time spent getting to my current level
djpharoh9101: yeah they are
muridin: pallys and locks should get a flying mount quest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
windsamurai: there has to be a definate balace between races or classes or whateve
[RH]Yragorn: Deal with the new race
SaintAvalon: Instead of nerf, why not bring all other classes up to them?
Judge: mana burn and aoe silence with energy and mana restore? Id gladly trade perception for that any day
Blade: I think that as time goes by the new races will become just like the old. I still see alot of the old races being played. The new races is just a new experience, new quests, new class, and pretty much a whole new world. Players like to experience something differant.
djpharoh9101: ive seen a level seven lock take out hogger
nexuscrysix: However we will be seeing changes in the old alliances, especially with the shaman becoming avalible
Kafziel: indeed... that should be number 1 priority for blizzard.. the balance..
{TLS}Angel: People will most likely just have new race alts and not mains
Sanctimonia: they do when you get to 70
|AcE|Thakilla: Imagine a BE hunter v a mage, as soon as the mage gets close range to prevent the hunter from doing any heavy damage with his bow, the hunter can use the AOE silence
[RH]Yragorn: Find your own way to own their spells
AOD_Spec_LeChuck: the drenai raciel are very usefull... a warroir has a healing spell with him at all times. and that is what warriors need. i havent really fegures out the blood elves raciel yet. but im getting there
djpharoh9101: thats a call for nerfing
[RH]Yragorn: Every races has a weakness
Dendei: I think the killing blow of the old races might be their aging starting zones. The new starting zones make the old one's look like any old quest hub. They really were well designed, and i find them fun to go through even on my level 60
googleplexdude: who thinks that mmorpg's are cool because you can quest AND make new friends online.
[RH]Yragorn: that makes the game more challenging for you all
Sanctimonia: me
windsamurai: yeah
[Asguard]ThePres: All classes have been overpowered at some point Blizzard knows this and will continue to balance thigns out
Sanctimonia: me
Sanctimonia: me
-.a|a.- KD: For truth
St(+)rck: Whats the weakness for BE's and Draeni?
Judge: gift of the naru isnt that impressive, its a less powerful renew with a casting time
djpharoh9101: i hope they do
[RH]Yragorn: None are overpowered
windsamurai: everyhing has to have balances and weeknesses
TAW_Toecutter [S2 1CO]: You bet Chris--I started one of each because the were new--Had nothing to do with the Racials. Plus, there will always be folks who want to play what they want, be it human or Orc or Troll, etc.
Val727 (aka lucian): I've taken hogger as a 8 rogue, it's not difficult with some skill
Sanctimonia: less heath to start off
Judge: but the BE racials are really powerful
apolloiv: The new BE town was made to attract more Alliance/kid players was it not
{TLS}Angel: when u look at it, racials are nothing compared to the class based abilities
Freyar: @Dendei- what's the downside of said healing spell though? Is it able to be countered by anything in terms of another active or passive ability?
A-Train: I disagree with Bill the new starting zones are diffinitley easier.
kuremia: /agree with Judge
Sanctimonia: oh
oplinger: warlocks are overpowered..it dawned on me when i saw one tank Rammstein with nothign but drains