The Two-Handed Sword
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Xfire Debate Club 1st Meeting: The Burning Crusade
January 31st, 2007 (Main Floor Transcript)

[Xfire] Debateox: Welcome to the inagural session of the Xfire Debate Club!

[Xfire] Debateox: We are very excited to have you all with us today!

[Xfire] Debateox: Remember, Xfire users should be debating the topics in the Open Debate Room - The Open Debate Room is not for Spam. It will be moderated strictly. User representing themselves intelligently will be invited into the Xfire Debate Club Clan: The Two Handed Sword. Invites will be sent out within a week after the Debate. Invites will be scarce.

[Xfire] Debateox: Basic chatting should go in Unofficial Chatter

[Xfire] Debateox: Q&A in the last 15 minutes will go in the Question Room (room invites for Question Room will go out later)

[Xfire] Debateox: Please join me in giving a virtual round of applause to our special guests!

We are especially happy to have with us today:

[Xfire] Debateox: Moderator - Gary Whitta

World of Raids - Teza

Tavern Cast - Infernal Bill

Curse Gaming - Chris Carter

WoW Insider - Mike Schramm


[Xfire] Debateox: If our special guests could please introduce themselves and tell us what was the last character and realm they logged into, and then Gary will let the debate begin

[Xfire] Debateox: Thanks Everyone for being here!

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: thanks!

[Xfire]Frederic: Hi All. This is Frederic from Xfire. I would like to thank you all for being here today for the first ever Debate Club! We have an exceptional panel of gaming experts, just for you.

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Hi, this is Infernal Bill from Taverncast. We're a World of Warcraft podcast talking about World of Warcraft and, of course beer. And a little World of Warcraft, but mostly beer.

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: hey my name is Mike, and I write for WoW Insider, a blog about WoW-- I play a Shaman who's 64 now on Thunderhorn, along with about 20 other toons

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: Hello guys! This is Christopher / Nimloth from Curse-Gaming. I'm sure you all know what we do so enough about that ;) I play a rogue on Kilrogg/US with the guild Conquest.

[WoR] Teza: Hello everyone its Teza from World of Raids and we are a website focused on high end contents and guilds support oriented


[Xfire] Debateox: OK Gary.., Get them started!

Gary Whitta: And I'm Gary Whitta, former Editor-in-Chief of PC Gamer and Level 70 Alliance mage on Kil'Jaeden.

Gary Whitta: Thanks everyone for joining us today!

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: thanks again, thanks everybody for coming :)

Gary Whitta: Okay, let's get this show on the road...

[taverncast] InfernalBill: You bet, I heard there would be beverages?

Gary Whitta: BYOB

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: i've got mine :)


Gary Whitta: FIRST QUESTION: I think - or at least I hope - that everyone here can agree that Blizzard really did an amazing job with Burning Crusade. But is there anything about it that left any of you disappointed? If there was one thing that you wish Blizzard had done differently with this expansion, what would it be?

[WoR] Teza: Some professions have been left behind in my opinion like engineering

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: The one pet peeve i have with Blizzards development routine is that so much of the content and items in the game are already known prior to release, and that takes away some of the excitement of killing a new boss or exploring.

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: I do think the Burning Crusade is awesome-- if there's one thing Blizzard could have done differently, I think it's innovate on quests a little more. They did put some cool new quests in there, but it's mostly go here, click on this, go there, click on that

Gary Whitta: Chris I wish they could keep some of that stuff secret too but I guess it's hard with an MMO when you have to have some kind of beta stage

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: i'd like to see quests with more choices-- instead of grinding rep, i'd like to make real decisions, like aldor/scryer, that affect my character

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Yeah, that'ss a good point about the quests, but at the end of the day, they did such a great job with the new zoones, I don't really mind

Gary Whitta: To Teza's point about professions, it does seem as though a lot of people are dropping professions to get jewelcrafting just because it is the new hotness

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: i think the professions are a weak point as well, that too is click and click and click

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: how about like minigames that allow you to level professions?

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: something besides make six widgets to get to 375

Gary Whitta: Let's get a bit more positive...

Gary Whitta: One thing I was really blown away by in the expansion is the quality of the graphics in Outland. It almost makes me wish that Blizzard would go back and give the old Azeroth zones a fresh lick of paint - they almost seem drab by comparison now.

[taverncast] InfernalBill: I'm not sure. Jewelcrafting has a lot to it and it's going to require some thought to min/max the jewels, but the real opportunists seems to be leveling up mining (not that gold is a factor anymore in Outland)

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: well on graphics, Dark Age of camelot did that, so it's certainly possible. but anytime you go back to refresh old content, you're not putting out new content

Gary Whitta: I was just so blown away by the skies in outland, when I look at the ones in azeroth now they look totally crap :-)

Gary Whitta: WTB new skis

Gary Whitta: skies

[taverncast] InfernalBill: The graphics are indeed amazing, but it certainly helps to have a great computer to enjoy them

[WoR] Teza: I hope Blizzard will rework some of Azeroth's zones, i think they have some things unfinished or planned for later, like implementing an area/instance where Dalaran is located

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: I agree with the graphics statement, but as mike says, I would rather they put that manpower into further developing new content ;) its a known fact that developers cant keep up with the pace of the gamers consumption

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: they did do things like bring out new weather effects and such, i guess it's just a matter of how the devs spend their time

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Yeah, when can get ganked by the Fel Reaver looking up at that sky. I don't know about you, but I'm joining his faction

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: ha Your reputation with Fel Reaver has increased.


Gary Whitta: NEXT QUESTION: How do you feel about the scaling-down of the dungeons from the big 40-man instances to the smaller five, ten and 25-man runs? Why do you think Blizzard scaled back from 40-mans, and do you think this will be a good thing for the game?

[taverncast] InfernalBill: 40 mans were clearly unwieldly and favored the old school type of gaming. I'm looking forward to having, essentlially, strike teams in shorter, cooler instances

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: we've talked about the 40/25 man on the site-- i generally think it's a good idea, because with fewer people, more people get loot, more people can play a role, and more instances can be run

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: right

[taverncast] InfernalBill: For those of us with limited time, it makes for a far more enjoyable experience

Gary Whitta: I have done my first new Karazhan runs now and I must say it feels like a much tighter more intimate group when it is just 10 people. 40 man raids always seemed a bit impersonal to me.

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: the only drawback would be guilds that are huge and running 2 or 3 mc groups a week, but those, I think, are few, and they can be split up

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: The 40 man thing. See, i'm kind of split on this. I do believe it is a good idea from a game development standpoint, but an absolutely horrible one from a guild standpoint. there are guilds out there who have been together for years, and it is kind of a slap in the face to those guilds. That said, encounter wise it does make for some interesting new options in the importance of each 'trooper'.

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: yeah that's why 5 mans, i think, really shine-- everyone gets to do their thing and you can work as a cohesive team

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Well, those guilds will have the manpower to create the little strike teams. it's going to break up families, for sure, but change is good

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Plus, we at love 5 mans

[WoR] Teza: there are min and plus, lots of old guilds from eq have 40+ ppl from previous mmorpgs, therefore going from 40 mans instance to 25 might be difficult for them to handle

[taverncast] InfernalBill: what's eq

[WoR] Teza: everquest

Gary Whitta: some old game our dads used to play

[taverncast] InfernalBill: what?

[taverncast] InfernalBill: not following you

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: instead of new graphics in Azeroth, I'd love to see a few more 5 mans from 45-65 or so :)

Gary Whitta: I think it was some kind of board game

[taverncast] InfernalBill: ahh, like monopolyu

Gary Whitta: yeah

Gary Whitta: but less fun

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: EQ was a type of torture that existed before wow :)

Gary Whitta: I really like the 10 man karazhan

Gary Whitta: that feels like just the right size for a great tight-knit group

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: another interesting point about the 25 man is, it sped up the Framerate for people with worse computers, and allowed them to put more polygons into the new content and still maintaining performance

Gary Whitta: good point chris

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: agreed

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Yeah, more beauty is a good thing. But pvp (AV) is still huge

Gary Whitta: new question coming...

[taverncast] InfernalBill: /bracing self

[WoR] Teza: Karazhan has been my best raiding experience in TBC so far, i am expecting the same feelings for 25 mans instance

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: INC


Gary Whitta: NEXT QUESTION: I’m seeing a lot of Draenei and Blood Elf players these days. Given that they have such powerful racials, are the original game races going to be neglected by new players, or will the novelty of the new races wear off as time goes by?

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: the new starting areas are awesome man :) and the gear you get is great

Gary Whitta: I hear that the draenei zones are now the best places to level from 1-20

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Funny thing about racials. I am an Orc Warlock. A rare breed. However, I feel fully vindicated with the new Blood Fury talent. So, my moral is play what is fun becuase you never know when Blizz will change the game on you


[taverncast] InfernalBill: Thanks, haven't heard that one before.

[taverncast] InfernalBill: :-)

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: I think that whenever you release a new race into an existing MMO, that race is going to get a lot of popularity to start with no matter what you do. Blood Elves could have had teh racial "summon butter" and people would still flock to it. At this point, its novelty... something new for people to feast their eyes on. 6 months down the line though, and for new players picking a race will be based on the same thing as it was before BC just with more options, imo

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: yeah the truth is that you should play what you want to play-- I think people will always play humans because they want to, but if you have BC, there are definite advantages to starting in the new areas

Gary Whitta: lol @ summon butter

[WoR] Teza: the novelty of the new races will wear off as time goes by, since the racials are an important point on your usual activity pvp and/or pve

[taverncast] InfernalBill: I'm not sure there are advantages to the new areas (other than being interesting). But the BE racials did get a lot of love

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: I'm disappointed they didn't get new priest racials, that seems like a costcutting measure to me

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Priest racials got nerfed I heard

Gary Whitta: Frankly, as a caster, that Blood Elf AoE silence scares the Bejeezus out me.

[WoR] Teza: indeed, i agree with mike

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Only dwarves play priests

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Yeah but Gary is still afraid of the dark

[WoR] Teza: the blood elf aoe silence coupled with tauren aoe stun can be devastating in pvp

Gary Whitta: I wonder how long it will take to be nerfed. Will of the Forsaken FTL.

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Will of the Forsaken has been around for a long, long time, though.

Gary Whitta: too bloody long if you ask mne

Gary Whitta: I did a little jig when they nerfed that sucker

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: AE silence is a word that sounds scary regardless. I think that the really good PvP players will put it to use in such a way that it will get changed at some point

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: gary you don't play alliance do you

Gary Whitta: funny you should say that...

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: *gasp* FOR THE HORDE

[taverncast] InfernalBill: /braces self for next question

Gary Whitta: lol

[WoR] Teza: aoe silence will probably wont get nerf, since its on a 2 sec duration (same than Tauren stun, which hasnt been changed since the beginning)

Gary Whitta: Okay next Q inc...

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: pull when ready


Gary Whitta: NEXT QUESTION: I kinda feel that by allowing paladins and shamen to become cross-faction, Blizzard caused Horde and Alliance to each lose a little bit of their unique flavor. I preferred it when each side had something the other didn’t. Does anyone else feel the same? Can anyone explain to me why Blizzard did it?

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: SHAMAN is the plural of shaman :)

Gary Whitta: not if you are talking about the popular trip-hop music combo!

[WoR] Teza: i do feel the same, blizzard choosed the easiest way

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: Blizzard has said this was a gamebalancing thing-- they had to design their raids around the fact that not everyone had all the abilities

[taverncast] InfernalBill: We talked about this on our show. It really was a great way to distinguish the 2 factions, that now is no more. It really leads to the watering down of the different factions. But, then again, each side gets a "whole new class" to play. Woot!

Gary Whitta: Hmmm that sounds like a bit of a cop-out to me

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: now, they can come up with an instance that requires tremor totem and judgement of wisdom

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Yeah, I'm not sure the best way to balance the two sides is merely to give each side the same arsenal.

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: I do agree that that I really, really, really hate pallies, and the reason for that is because I played horde-- new players won't feel that same way, I think, and so they won't experience as much of that Horde vs. Ally part of the game

Gary Whitta: yeah I have a suspicion that they will do exactly that

Gary Whitta: no wonder you see so many blood elve pallies and draenei shammies running around...

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: Its totally from a balancing point of view. Since Paladins and Shaman are not their exact opposites/equals, balancing PvE and PvP around something that does and doesnt exist for each side apparently is too much of a task. While I do think that the change makes for some really interesting new PvP compositions, it leaves the taste of blizzard being "lazy' on the matter.

[taverncast] InfernalBill: yeah, it's the new thing, Gary, and everyone wants to try it out

Gary Whitta: Well I think people also sense that dungeons are going to require them

Gary Whitta: and so they are just getting ready for that

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Well, I wouldn't call the work they did on the expansion, exactly, lazy

Gary Whitta: serious guilds probably demanded that some players re-rolled as the new class, or at least will be heavily recruiting

[taverncast] InfernalBill: I'd call me lazy, but not Blizz

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: well, lets keep the work on the expansion and balanzing the two factions based on different classes seperate

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: what really makes me angry are the guilds that consider shaman = pally. the other thing this will do is finally differentiate the hybrids better

[taverncast] InfernalBill: No doubt. For those who look at the official forums, Horde Pallies and Alliance Shaman are in high high demand in the big guilds

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: horde = offensive hybrids, pally = defensive hybrids is the way it should be, and now Blizzard can make those changes

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: Shaman, you mean? =p

Gary Whitta: I cannot accuse blizz of being lazy based on BC, but I definitely feel as though a little uniqueness has been lost

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: haha there are horde that aren't shaman? :P

[WoR] Teza: Blizz could have came up with new spells for both factions, instead of giving both of them shaman/pally

Gary Whitta: and I can't think of a reason for it other than to make the dungeons a little less of a headache to design

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Absolutely. With all the loot making us look the same, it's just one more nail in the coffin of homogeneity

Gary Whitta: homo what?

[taverncast] InfernalBill: yeah, I said homo

Gary Whitta: hmmm

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: hero classes, if they're ever added in, might bring a little bit of that back, hopefully

Gary Whitta: try to keep that stuff in barrens chat pls

[WoR] Teza: i hope too mike

[taverncast] InfernalBill: lol, with Chuck Norris?

Gary Whitta: next q INC

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: /ready


Gary Whitta: NEXT QUESTION: It also seems as though Alliance remains the dominant (in terms of population) faction on most servers. This can be a real pain for both factions - Horde find themselves often outnumbered in world PvP while Alliance has much longer queues for battlegrounds. Is this something Blizzard should try to address, and if so how?

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: ha i think the way Blizzard addressed overpopulated alliance is none other than Blood Elves :)

[taverncast] InfernalBill: I think they've addressed it by giving Horde a pretty class (i.e., the BElfs). So many people are running around with female elves it makes me fell a little funny

[WoR] Teza: they already fixed part of this problem with arena system, letting you fight your own faction

Gary Whitta: yeah I thought that too... Horde finally have a race that isn't super ugly to look at

[WoR] Teza: Blizz could apply a similar solution for battlegrounds

Gary Whitta: but will that really skew the population?

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: it's true that most newcomers to online gaming tend to go towards what they know, so that's why alliance seems to have so many newbies

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: I think mike hit the nail on the head, but as teza said, arenas letting you fight your own kind helps. Although, that does nothing for actual non-instance world pvp. I think that the ratio of horde / ally is too early to tell if has been impacted by the Bloodelves on the Horde side


Gary Whitta: Thing is, I don't really want to fight Alliance

Gary Whitta: I want to kill Horde

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: I think a better question is, what kind of population of Bloodelf manginas are we going to see in 6 months

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: see? gary says "noob" and plays alliance. QED

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Another reason why there may be an imbalance is because most people think of the Alliance as "good" and the Horde as "bad". That's not something that can easily be fixed.

Gary Whitta: well if you get ino the lore the Horde are actually quite honorable in their own way, but yeah I suspect most people don't get that right off the bat

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Correct, but what's the lore?

Gary Whitta: and let's face it, who wants to play a troll?

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: that's very true, the Horde aren't bad, they're just misunderstood

[taverncast] InfernalBill: The lore behind all this stuff, and the quest text, i find to be really interesting

Gary Whitta: I don't even like that CoT quest where I have to break Thrall out of jail

Gary Whitta: I'd rather just ice lance him

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: !!! GARY

[WoR] Teza: hopefully the cuteness of be will help horde faction on this population point

Gary Whitta: frost nova + ice lance = qq thrall

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: I have a question-- what percentage of players do you all think actually care about the lore?

[taverncast] InfernalBill: and this goes back to an earlier question regarding the quests, that Blizz did such a great job integrating the lore in the quests

Gary Whitta: thanks mike, I'll just scratch that one off my list here...

Gary Whitta: I personally love the lore

[taverncast] InfernalBill: I didn't, but I'll tell you that we have a lore feature on our podcast and it is consistently one of the most talked about aspects of the show

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: ha sorry i pickpocketed the question from you. I just wonder how many players actually read the quest text and get invested in the story of what's happening in the game

Gary Whitta: but so many players I know don't even read the quests, all they want to do is rush around and finish everything as fast as possible

[taverncast] InfernalBill: so there is demand out there for it, though most hardcore gamers gloss over that aspect

Gary Whitta: they don't even know what they're doing, all they know is they have to kill 10 of these things or collect 10 of those things

Gary Whitta: they have no idea why

[taverncast] InfernalBill: hardcore gamers

Gary Whitta: pffft, but they are missing out on one of the best parts of the game

Gary Whitta: That guy who hit 70 in 28 hours? I have nothing but pity for him.

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: personally, while i'm playing i dont give a crap about th elore. But I do find it interesting to read outside the game

[WoR] Teza: Did you read the requirement for Mount Hyjal?

[taverncast] InfernalBill: he's a lore guru from what I hear

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: well that was a stunt, i think

[WoR] Teza: the lore involved in it seem amazing

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: Reading all the quest text and all that stuff takes too much time!

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: yeah i doubt that guy really plays the game that fast all the time :)

[taverncast] InfernalBill: pwn more! less lore!

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: but chris, do you care about the story? Did you realize when you were killing Van Cleef that he was a former architect of stormwind?

Gary Whitta: Do you think it takes you out of the game a little bit when you meet a character like Haris Pilton or Oprah Windfury?

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: yeah, i find it fun to read in retrospect

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: but while im killing him i care about getting exp, killing stuff and getting levels

[taverncast] InfernalBill: The pop culture references are interesting I think. I most enjoy He Man and his crew in Strat

Gary Whitta: There is a guy in Teaar

[taverncast] InfernalBill: I meant Shat

Gary Whitta: Telaar

Gary Whitta: called Iolol

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: the pop culture references are definitely the extra icing that blizzard puts on the cake

[taverncast] InfernalBill: There's full on He-Man and Battle Cat in Shat. I kid you not

[taverncast] InfernalBill: He's one of the Battlemasters i think

Gary Whitta: That's what I love about CoT, it's so cool to go back and be a part of big events from warcraft history

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: my favorite is the auctioneers Orly and Yarly

Gary Whitta: Caverns of Time is perhaps the coolest thing in BC

Gary Whitta: in my hunble...

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: A good example of lore that i got into in retrospect was Ragnaros, and whether or not he was considered a god =P i'm sure a lot of you recognize that one

Gary Whitta: *humble

[WoR] Teza: indeed Old HIllsbrad was my favourite 5 man instance in tbc

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Yeah, and I hear the questline to get to Mt Hyal is going to take until the next expansion to complete

[taverncast] InfernalBill: but it will be a fun ride getting there, no doubt

Gary Whitta: next Q inc...

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: well, never overestimate playtime in this game :)


Gary Whitta: NEXT QUESTION: As a hardcore PvPer who loves the thrill of knowing that you can be attacked at almost any moment, PvE to me seems crushingly dull by comparison. And yet it’s still considered the “Normal” server type. Will PvP ever become more mainstream, or will it always remain the choice of hardcore players only?

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: ok gary here we go-- I play PvE and have since the beginning :)

Gary Whitta: hehe

[taverncast] InfernalBill: You know that shot of adrenalline you get when you are flagged for pvp on a pve server? Well, that feeling, I think, scares most people and, as such, pvp servers will mostly be relegated to the hardcore gamers.

Gary Whitta: I like that shot of adrenaline, but I suspect there are many who don't

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: PvE is my preference because it gives me the choice of whether I want to get ganked or not-- I'll flag all the time-- if a gnome steals my quest target, I'll flag and taunt him even if he's got a level or two on me

[taverncast] InfernalBill: The people that go on a pvp server that aren't hardcore will eventually migrate off

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: but if I've only got 30 mins to play, I don't want to mess with that stuff

[taverncast] InfernalBill: /cough Care Bear

Gary Whitta: I was actually amazed how little pvp there was in outland at the opening of BC

[WoR] Teza: i play PvP from the beginning of wow, and since we switched to a medium pop server, i get attacked much less than on my original server, it takes time to get hated

Gary Whitta: even on a pvp server people just wanted to get on with leveling, they didn't want to waste time ganking each other

Gary Whitta: it was actually quite weird to fight side by side with horde

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: See, now that is an interesting question. I play on a PvE server, and find high level (skill, not actual levels) pvp between equal teams to be some of the most rushing thrills in the game. So why did I go to a PvE server? Well, my guild went there. As for the PvP becoming mainstream, I do, i think it is becoming more and more what players want. In a lot of cases I think wow is part of making people realize what they want rather than going with the "herd" of pve being the big thing

Gary Whitta: of course the truce did not last long...

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: nah, playing on a PvP server is like driving an automatic, and playing on a PvE is like driving those cars that let you switch between automatic and manual-- you can drive however you want to

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: PvP is probably more realistic, but who plays WoW for the realism?

Gary Whitta: What do you think of the Arenas so far? I’m glad Blizzard introduced something like this as even moreso than the battlegrounds it seems like a great way for rival players to really settle disputes over who are the best PvPers.

[WoR] Teza: i am expecting a lot from arenas, i alwais hated since the beginning how ppl could come back after dying, i want enemies fighting for their life knowing they are gonna get an instant rez

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Yeah, that's true and it will be interesting to see if it gets used that way. I think for now, most people are just tyring to get to 70 and put their teams together. The rewards appear to be outstanding

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: I think arenas are a great idea, but I think they'll see more play as people hit 70 and when the "Season" starts

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: The arenas brought something to wow's pvp scene taht was missing for a long time: Deathmatch. What's more interesting is if Arena pvp will actually develop into official ladder fights like CS has over time :p lets face it, Arenas are about killing all your opponents. If you're the best, well - then you are the best and have bragging rights.

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: I also can't wait to see the top teams that come out of it-- my friend and I play a mage and shaman, and we rock together in pvp. I wonder which class combos will work best in 2v2 or 3v3

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Mage and Shaman is a good team, but it needs more Warlock

Gary Whitta: yeah I have been thinking about that

Gary Whitta: all hunter team ftw imo

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Ahh, hunters. Now familiar with teh nerf stick

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: yeah chris the other benefit to making arenas the hardcore areas is that it'll get some of those premades out of the other battlegrounds

Gary Whitta: NEXT Q INC

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: players i think really want a place where they can be the best there is without having to put up with other players or entertain them, and arenas seem like it

[taverncast] InfernalBill: /more beer


Gary Whitta: NEXT QUESTION: What’s your take on the whole gold-farming issue? I’m someone who has come out publicly against it, I personally think it damages the game and really is just another form of cheating. Does anyone here though think that goldfamers/powerlevelers and the people who use those services can be defended?

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: haha someone defend goldfarming please, because F GOLD FARMING

Gary Whitta: ...silence...

Gary Whitta: okay so we all agree that goldfarmers are scum?

[WoR] Teza: If you are in a very active guild, like raiding 6 evenings/ week, it can be defended

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: i think most players generally hate goldfarming, because it's as close to cheating in this game as you can get

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: Well, besides the fact that gold farming ruins the economy, makes for bigger queues to play at night, and are stereotyped with ripping people off with the "phishing" sites

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: i personally would like to see goldfarming disappear completely

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Well, I'm against gold farming, so it's tough to make a plausible argument other than something along the lines of a free economy argument, but at the end of the day, ti's still cheating

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: teeza if you need to goldfarm to raid 6 nights a week, shouldn't you be raiding 5 nights a week?

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: err everyone farms gold but i mean buying it

Gary Whitta: One last question from me and then we are going to throw it open to questions from xfire members....

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: let the game be played by the gamers, not people trying to make money off of lowly paid labour in 3rd world countries

[taverncast] InfernalBill: I guess on the plus side, I always seem to get a nice personal email from them advertising their services. makes me feel warm and fuzzy

Gary Whitta: oh yeah I love in-game spam


Gary Whitta: NEXT Q INC

[WoR] Teza: overall i am against gold farming, but not everyone in a guild got the same playtime


Gary Whitta: NEXT QUESTION: So, where does Blizzard go from here? What would you like to see in the NEXT expansion?

Gary Whitta: Do you think it will be difficult for them to continue to grow the world, add new races etc, while remaining consistent within the lore/mythology they have already set out?

Gary Whitta: I think what I’d really like to see are a couple of new classes. That seems to have the potential to open the game up more than new races.

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: we did a post on this a while ago-- players want to see the maelstrom, undermine, uldum, tons of new stuff

[taverncast] InfernalBill: There was a lot of talk about Hero classes way back when, and I would love to see that implemented

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: yeah hero classes are a personal favorite, and that would keep them from having to retune the whole game

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Right. no new classes but it would add a level to both the abilities and the lore of each character

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: since we've got new starting areas and a new endgame, I'd kind of like to see a new middle-- lots of players have mains in their 30s or 40s and they could benefit from new content

[taverncast] InfernalBill: it's an rp player's dream

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: SM can only be run so many times :)

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Yeah, Mike. Desolace does seem a bit desolate compared to the new areas

[WoR] Teza: i would like to see new races personnaly, and specific instances like underwater instances

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: Northrend, Emerald dream and all that goodness that we've heard so much talk about but seen .... nothing! There are tremendous amounts of content that Blizzard can build on PvE wise. To be honest, if the next expansion just consisted of a great amount of new raid and high end content coupled with new pvp battlegrounds and technologies, i would ok with it. BUT... for the sake of christ, give us some way to improve our character outside of gear and outside of raids.

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: Anyone who is familiar with old everquest's "Alternate advancement points" will know what im talking about


Gary Whitta: okay we're going to throw it open now to questions from the xfire userbase...

Gary Whitta: here comes the first one

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: wooho

Gary Whitta: (and it's a good one)

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: btw thanks wowinsider readers for showing up :)


Gary Whitta: bnaielohim: It would be nice to hear how the guests feel about their internet fame spurred by WoW - how has it changed them? How long do they excect it to go on? People like Teza and Infernalbill are total celebrities to us.

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: yeah i can't believe i'm in the same chatroom as teeza and bill

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: i'm never washing this keyboard again

[WoR] Teza: same

Gary Whitta: me either, I am getting their autographs after

[WoR] Teza: aha

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Wow. I don't if I'd call myself a celebrity per se, other than that there certainly are a lot more tells in game. It's really a fun experience

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: my favorite celebrity actually plays on Thorn with me-- ALAMO rocks

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Basically just a group of fun people playing a fun game recording a fun show.

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: Well, if i can be famous enough to take over the world i'd be happy! No really though, e-fame comes and goes. It's important to keep your feet on the ground and just do your thing and treat people respectfully!


Gary Whitta: [r/uho]Gluesticks: do you think that bizzard will ever add a new faction?

[WoR] Teza: no

[WoR] Teza: too much work

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: playable faction i assume you mean

Gary Whitta: I think your best chance of a 3-faction game is World of Starcraft

Gary Whitta: ;-)

Gary Whitta: I guess they could add Burning Legion

[taverncast] InfernalBill: There was talk when WOW was in development (when WCIII came out) of having the demon race.

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: maybe murlocs and naga could be their own faction

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Yup Burning Legion

[taverncast] InfernalBill: But they nixed it early

Gary Whitta: yeah

[taverncast] InfernalBill: How cool would it be to play an Infernal

Gary Whitta: I don't think you'd see it in an expansion but maybe if Blizz ever hits the reset button and does a WoW 2

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: WoW II: Electric Boogaloo will be released in 2038 and have eight factions actually

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: critters will be one

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: i want to play a bunny :)

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Pandaren, which was originally an April Fool's joke, could also be really cool

Gary Whitta: I was actually really hoping for Pandaren

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: oh man i was hoping there'd be at least one pandaren in outland

Gary Whitta: but apparently they could never sell that in china

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Ha!

[WoR] Teza: what about playing a naga

Gary Whitta: here is our next user question


Gary Whitta: AOD_Spec_LeChuck: EverQuest has houses that you can buy and put stuff in it and such. would it be cool to see the same in World Of Warcraft?

[taverncast] InfernalBill: There's that EQ word again...

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: yes, blizzard has actually acknowledged that player houses would be fun and they'd like to do it

Gary Whitta: I would love to have my own house

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: they say they just want to make sure that it's a "blizzard-quality feature"

Gary Whitta: I would put horde trophies in it

Gary Whitta: what exactly would you do in this supposed house?

[WoR] Teza: i would really enjoy if Blizzard could add housing in tbc

Gary Whitta: have friends round for tea?

Gary Whitta: what is the gameplay point of it

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: there's so many bad ways to do player housing that Blizzard has to be careful

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: guilds could have houses and meet in them

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: Sure, it would be "cool" but that's all theres to it for me. I peronally don't see the big deal in housing! having a house doesnt make me better in pvp or make me do more damage on raids!

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: it's mostly a customization thing-- you can collect items in instances or pvp to display in your house

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Yeah, it would be awesome from a Guild point of view. But the people that really cared about the lore....the houses are for them

[WoR] Teza: you could put boss heads on guild house walls, add alch lab in house ,etc...

Gary Whitta: yeah I like that

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: you could have special trainers or faction people in the house

[taverncast] InfernalBill: You could decorate your own curtains!!! Ohh the possibilities...

Gary Whitta: and another question...


Gary Whitta: [Toast]sleepyperson2: how long will blizzard stay on WoW

[taverncast] InfernalBill: As long as it makes 125M a month

Gary Whitta: will we see more expansions or will blizz move to WoW 2 at some point do you think?

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: well diablo 3 comes out next year so...

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: just kidding!

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Why would they make a competing MMO? I would love to see Starcraft MMO, but I am one of the people paying to play WOW

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: if you look at Blizzard's history, they like sequels, so I think there will be a WoW 2

Gary Whitta: I wonder where blizzard keeps all that money, do they have a big underground bunker or something do you think

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: I think WoW has atleast 5 years in it, but were more realistically looking at 7-10 from a marketing point of view. It would not make sense for them to shut down something that is making them money, and well - as Ultima Online has proven - people still play older games!

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: but then again it takes them years to make a game, so it won't be for a longgggg time-- by then we won't be playing with mouse and keyboard


[taverncast] InfernalBill: Virtual Reality Expansion!

[WoR] Teza: since they are so many suscribers, i believe they will increase the rate of the next expansions to be released

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: Universe of Warcraft

[taverncast] InfernalBill: I don't want to go through any more Dark Portals, though

[taverncast] InfernalBill: disturbing enough just the one time

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: I'll go on record as saying this: I think Blizzard will, sometime in the future, actually release two expansions within a year of each other


Gary Whitta: Schmoopie: What is Blizzard doing to improve user-created content in the WoW universe?

Gary Whitta: uh, shouldn't the users be doing things to improve user-created content?

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: i don't think user created content have a place in the WoW universe

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Well, they certainly seem to be good about adopting popular add ons. Pretty much use that community to give them good ideas

Gary Whitta: I personally don't use any mods, I don't agree with them

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Which you can find on Curse Gaming (you're welcome, Chris)

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: Second Life is for user-created content, WoW is Blizzard's artistic talent

[WoR] Teza: i use addons since day one

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: Schmoopie, isn't what we are doing right now user created content? ;) World of Raids, Curse, all these sites. Blizzard provided us with the medium just by having WoW!

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: thanks bill ;)

Gary Whitta: addons annoy me

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: addons don't mean "content," I think

[Xfire] Debateox: last question

[WoR] Teza: indeed

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: and we do create content, but not ingame content

Gary Whitta: okay guys we are down to the wire but we have time for one more question...

Gary Whitta: and here it comes...

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: go for it

[taverncast] InfernalBill: /ducks

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: wait AFK


Gary Whitta: Xfire]Frederic: If it weren't for WoW, what would you be spending your time on these days? :-)

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: oh sorry did you guys die? I had to get food before the pull

Gary Whitta: /gkick

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: personally i'm playing the crap out of xbox

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: gears of war +r6 + live = awesome

[WoR] Teza: wii zelda soon here, together with raiding new dungeons

Gary Whitta: those games are awesome but I stopped playing everything else as soon as BC came out

Gary Whitta: BC consumes all

[WoR] Teza: now yes

Gary Whitta: I would probably spend more time working on my stand up comedy

[taverncast] InfernalBill: I used to have other hobbies (writing poetry, working on the Middle East crisis, getting a second degree). I'm happy with my deicision to give that all up for WOW

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: or i might even go outside, but I hear that's got some really high level stuff, and I need to save repair money for a flying mount

[Xfire] Debateox: ok....any more comments ? ?

[Xfire] Debateox: We are about out of time here today!

Gary Whitta: outside is bugged

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: Don't know, prolly working more hours :P though i have to mention, i am really looking forward to playing Warhammer Online. When it becomes available, my wow time will get delegated towards that game in parts


[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: thanks guys!

[WoR] Teza: it was too short

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Yeah, this was a lot of fun!

[Xfire] Debateox: This has been lots of fun!

[taverncast] InfernalBill: Gary, roll Horde!

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: see you in Outland

Gary Whitta: wow, that hour really flew by!

[Xfire] Debateox: I have 3 games to give away...

Gary Whitta: thanks so much everyone for taking part

[WoR] Teza: but its been fun

Gary Whitta: NEVER

[taverncast] InfernalBill: We'd love to have you on the Show

[Xfire] Debateox: We will be comnig back with a new debate club each month

Gary Whitta: Bill, any time - just drop me an email and we will set it up

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: Thanks guys for inviting me! It's been fun!

[Xfire] Debateox: and a WoW one every 2 months min.

Gary Whitta: sweet

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: what games are you giving away

[Xfire] Debateox: I really would like to say thanks to our guests again!

[Xfire] Debateox: And also thanks to the Xfire community who did an awesome job in the Open Debate Room

[Xfire] Debateox: That transcript is really fun to read also!

[Xfire] Debateox: So without further ado...

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: yeah they were really rolling in there

[Xfire] Debateox: the three winners...

[Xfire] Debateox: Black Ranger

Gary Whitta: yeah there was some good chat in the open debate room

[Xfire] Debateox: Dendei

Gary Whitta: how do I send someone a PM?

[Xfire] Debateox: Judge

[Xfire] Debateox: Winners PM Debateox

[WoWInsider]mikeschramm: grats BR, Dendei, Judge

[Curse]Nimloth/Chris: Grats Everyone!

[Xfire] Debateox: THanks everyone!

[WoR] Teza: Grats