[Xfire] OliT (olit): Hello everybody!

[Xfire] OliT (olit): We'll be starting the debate in a matter of seconds

[Xfire] OliT (olit): First, let me just introduce you to our guests. Antoine (Nokia) is Antoine Doumenc, the head of Global Games Marketing at Nokia

Antoine (Nokia) (antoinedoumenc): Hi there, thanks for having us

[Xfire] OliT (olit): nathansolomon is Nathan Solomon, Principal at whyos.com

nathansolomon: 'afternoon

[Xfire] OliT (olit): [Joystiq] Xav is Xav de Matos, Editor at Joystiq.com

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): Oh, sorry I should probably turn WordFU off... Hello!

[Xfire] OliT (olit): And finally, tonights moderator, [PG] Rob Hearn, which is : Rob Hearn, the Editor at Pocket Gamer

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Hello, thanks for having me

[Xfire] OliT (olit): A big welcome to all of you! I suggest we get this debate started!

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Great, so the topic is Mobile Gaming - Fad or Future?

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): I guess I'll launch straight in with the first question

 

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): What is it that makes mobile gaming so popular?

nathansolomon: Is it?

Antoine (Nokia) (antoinedoumenc): By popular, if we define the number of users, it is defeneatly

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Well, Gameloft recently announced 200m downloads

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Which is a fairly impressive number, but I suppose to conventional gamers it might not seem as visible as DS or PSP gaming

nathansolomon: but by sales and profitablility of publishers? I mean iphone/ipod touch is changing the dynamic, but I think game sales on mobile have been hobbled by a nunber of factors for years.

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): I think, and we've seen in this generation especially, that the industry has taken a shine to giving users so much software to help them create their own experiences. You see this on the Xbox as well with Community Games. There is a new appreciation for small games. How many games are now available on the iTunes store?

Antoine (Nokia) (antoinedoumenc): if ew look at the numbers, there are today more people accessing the internet using their phone than PC. If we transpose that to people playing games, the number is even more significant.

 

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Then why do you suppose mobile gaming is less obviously popular than say DS or PSP gaming - at least, prior to the iPhone?

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): It's all about software.

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): The market for PSP and DS is controlled. iTunes a mess at times.

Antoine (Nokia) (antoinedoumenc): The industry has to overcome significant barriers...

Antoine (Nokia) (antoinedoumenc): Distribution, consumer experience, cost for development.. I think one after the other those barriers are falling.

nathansolomon: Meh, Nokia had a great opportunity to leverage the series 60 devices into something iphone-like for content, but took the n-gage route, and now all of the skilled devs that were making killer content that nobody bought on symbian are in incredible demand for iphone

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): Wired did a story on Ethan Nicholas, creator of iShoot, who realized that his small title wouldn't get noticed unless he gave a piece of it away as a free trial. The amount of software available for users on the iTunes store is insane. One person creates an interesting game and nine others create something like it for slightly cheaper... or someone develops something free.

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): Look at something like GoGo Apps. They release Tap Tap Revenge/Dance.

nathansolomon: It's true that the app store has reached the inevitable tipping point where a platform becomes too hot and has to be tweaked, but that's not an impossible problem

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): You can pick up one of their titles for a small amount of money (highest is Tap Tap Coldplay for $4.99), and many are free. Konami recently released Dance Dance Revolution for $6.99. Major publishers seem to be missing the point.

[Xfire] OliT (olit): Ok, guys, a small interruption!

Antoine (Nokia) (antoinedoumenc): This is where the whole paradyme : the balance between value and distribution. The mobile content distribution is reaching maturity through the different entities and balance will be found

[Xfire] OliT (olit): I have a surprise for you

[Xfire] OliT (olit): All of a sudden, we have another guest for the debate.

 

Please welcome Chris Plummer from ngmoco, who has been a part of developing such games as Rolando 2 and Touch Pets: Dogs.

[Xfire] OliT (olit): We were just able to get him here, sorry about not telling all of you sooner!

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): Welcome Chris.

[Xfire] OliT (olit): Welcome Chris :)

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Hello Chris, pleasure to have you along

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): Thanks and hello

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): So far, we've been talking about why mobile gaming is so popular, and the iPhone inevitably cropped up - what impact do you think the iPhone has had?

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): It's introduced an entirely new gaming platform where choice and power and mobility collide for the benifit of gamers worldwide

 

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Simon Oliver was recently quite scathing about Java gaming. Do you share his views on that score?

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): I perfer to stay open minded on the subject, but Simon makes some good points.

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): And the same question to all, before we move on. Can Java and BREW compete?

Antoine (Nokia) (antoinedoumenc): I think the consumer experience that JAva can deliver is on another level that other platforms

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): The gaming space is changing everywhere. I know this debate is specifically about mobile games, but look at the online space. I have industry friends who own thousands of dollars worth of console hardware and software and still spend hours a night playing Quake Live or the BF: Heroes beta.

nathansolomon: I don't think it's a metter of technology, but business model.

Antoine (Nokia) (antoinedoumenc): It is the widest installed base of devices and in many countries the only available. I see everyday major innovations coming from that space but still stuck in the distribution. The model has to evolve.

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Okay, the next question is handily related.

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): It has never been about tech. The PSP was supposed to blow the DS out of the water with specs. But in the end, it's the software and experiences that made the difference.

 

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Can mobile gaming compete with the dedicated hand held consoles, like the Nintendo DS and the PSP?

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): The iPhone is already clobbering those systems

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): not a question of can, bot to what extent

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): There are good expereinces to be had on all fronts, but I think tranditional handheld was not expecting the impact of teh iphone

nathansolomon: Combined, the touch and iphone seem to be selling as much quarterly as the DS; and the touch in nearly equal quantities, is probably more a game device than anything else

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): And a lot of hardcore gamers are buying tons of apps

Antoine (Nokia) (antoinedoumenc): I do not think it should... The experience is made by many factors : The screen size, the Controll and also the game itself. If looking at the HW, the competition is not an option. There are phones that will be closer to portable consoles, but a lot of games will still be played on small screen devices, fitting in the smallest pocket.

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): Its about lifestyle change for gamers and these tiny, powerful, capable gaming devices are changing the way and how frequently people can game

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): The market for iPhone software has exploded. The handheld industry just isn't seeing that rate of growth.

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): I can frag someone while my wife is trying on clothes. how awesoem is that!?

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): It does seem to be the case that the iPhone has determined, or at least hastened, the digital distribution model being pursued by Nintendo and Sony

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): So let's turn it around - can they catch up?

nathansolomon: I think that it is now, and will only become more, difficult to define devices and wireless technologies in the old ways

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): It will be hard to catch up with the phenomenon of the app store and the choice it offers

nathansolomon: Are you asking if Nintendo and Sony can catch up?

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): its a place gamers can find seemingly limetless options from free to premium games and acquire them seamlessly

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): In terms of the volume being digitally distributed and Apple's user experience, yes

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): We're seeing this digital distribution model coming into the DS with the DSiWare lineup. Sony has sold games online for PSP for ages now, since the failure of the UMD drive. The problem with major companies is that they test and test until they get it right. Smaller companies, companies making great iPhone games, are releasing early and often and iterating on its releases. There is constantly a stream of new games and experiences waiting at the end of a wifi hotspot or 3G network.

Antoine (Nokia) (antoinedoumenc): Many users today do own a console, a portable and a phone and actually play on all 3 depending on the time, the type of game and level of immersion they are looking fo. But in terms of volumes devices, mobile is growing very fast.

nathansolomon: Nintendo would answer the question by finding another way to keep its audience, as they did with the Wii on the home side of things. Sony is probably not organized enough to respond adequately.

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): The right innovation can drive leadership change in the portable space. Nintendo has a knack for that.

 

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): How do you think the other mobile app stores will fare - Nokia Ovi, Android Market and BlackBerry App World for example?

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): If they have exclusive, high quality games, then they have a chance. if they're a dumping ground for ports that don't feel unique to their respective devices, then there will be no reason to use those mobile platforms for entertainment over an iphone/itoch

Antoine (Nokia) (antoinedoumenc): Nokia strategy is to enable distribution across as many different devices as possible. The N-Gage platform is aiming at premium gaming experience on mobile phones, starting to use the uniqueness of phones capabilities like GPS, camera. Then the Ovi Store that is being launched  is aiming at bringing causal games as soon as possible to the million of users of Nokia devices.

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): So much of the excitement associated with the iPhone is tied into the hardware and what it can do. I think that if those markets have games that are exclusive and entertaining, they have the opportunity to get noticed as well.

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): agreed. its about making each platform stand out because the game can only be expereinced with that hardware

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): That's what ngmoco strives to do with the iPhone

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): The best example, a it's great that Chris is here, is LocoRoco versus Rolando.

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): Instantly compared when either is brought up.

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): Excactly - but rolando ultimately offers deeper interaction that you could never do on a psp

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): But what Rolando did was create, not just a game, but something that actually used the hardware.

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Indeed. I heard Justin McElroy on the Joystiq podcast say that Rolando allowed you to do what felt natural in LocoRoco - tilt the screen

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): Even more of that to come in Rolando 2! areound midnight PST we'll be unveiling the trailer and you can see where we're taking it - even further beyond other handhelds or mobile devices

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): rolando2.ngmoco.com

[Xfire] OliT (olit): Oooh, sneaky advertising!

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Okay, next question. I think you'll all be agreed on this

* [Xfire] OliT (olit) starts writing invoice

[Xfire] OliT (olit): ;9

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): :?

 

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Can mobile terminals provide a quality gaming experience, despite their smaller size? Or is the smaller size something that helps the gaming experience?

[Xfire] OliT (olit): (I'm just kidding, go for it Chris!)

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): Listen, and I think this was a question on the Xfire Debate Club posting for this edition, do I want to play Call of Duty on my iPhone? No.

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): Some companies think I do. But I don't.

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): So Gameloft's Brothers in Arms iPhone game isn't appropriate to the device, in your view?

Antoine (Nokia) (antoinedoumenc): Te games design on mobile has changed dramatically. we see less and less ports from other platfoms and inovative titles taking advantage of the specificities. Cal of Duty console experience on a phone ; No. But an innovative experience around the same title : Why not ?

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): he he.. seriously, though Check out the multi-tasking gamers who game while they watch tv, surf the web - or even while wathing someone else game on a console. so yes, absolutely you can have a high end gaming experience on a handset, but it wil be crafted for a handset

nathansolomon: The form factor affects the game design, but I don't think that any titles or categories are ruled out once you get to an iPhone screen size

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): I want to play something that's related to the device. Mobile devices are something you use when you're away from home. I might play MGS Touch when I'm next to my HDTV for a few minutes. But if then I realize I can play MGS4 proper if I want to jump into that world.

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): actually, our research shows most people play their iphoen at home

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): go figure

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): My point being that if the experience makes sense for the platform I'd spend my time on it.

nathansolomon: I could see that, and a lot of people use the iPhone instead of a computer.

nathansolomon: I don't believe that any form of three-screen philosophy is valid when looking forward

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): what do you mean?

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): What I mean by being away from home is related more to timing. When I play an iPhone game, I want a quick shot of entertainment. If I want to play an epic war game, I have a PS3 or an Xbox 360.

[Xfire] OliT (olit): Reminder: In a couple of minutes, we'll start throwing in some user questions as well

Antoine (Nokia) (antoinedoumenc): Some genre of titles can be complement on multiple screens. I saw some application for WWW that complement the experience of the PCgame on the move that opened the dorr to very interresting concepts.

[Xfire] OliT (olit): If you want to ask something, go to the question room!

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Okay, then let's wrap this bit up with a related question.

 

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Is there anything keeping avid gamers from playing mobile games? If so, what?

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): Awareness of just how quickly things have changed in the mobile/iphone space

nathansolomon: Saying that a phone, pc and television interact in a certain way is no longer relevant. Phones are becoming something different, as are PCs and TVs

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): There are a few things. Sadly, some people  -- like they think about casual titles -- think mobile gaming will destroy their hardcore franchises.

Antoine (Nokia) (antoinedoumenc): If the avid gamer is looking to replicate  the same experience than on the PC then that won't work. But many play games on mobile with different goal.

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): Remember the fear around message boards that casual gaming was killing the hardcore? It's silly, but that's something that keeps people away.

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): Another issue is coverage.

nathansolomon: Who thinks that about mobile gaming Xav?

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): We're at a point now where most of teh traditional gaming compulsions can be satisfied or at least expressed on a handheld device

Antoine (Nokia) (antoinedoumenc): Companies developing titles for console and PC are learning the specificities of the mobile and develop accordingly.

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): There is a segment of hardcore gamers who don't like that companies like Konami are making MGS Touch when they could be making something they think is for "them."

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): and honestly, they could be making somethign for "them"

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): and doing it on an iphone

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): Well MGS Touch wasn't for my girlfriend!

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): maybe not the PS3 game, but somethign the core fans woudl love

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): I think the press is really just waking up to mobile gaming. In the last year you see outlets really talking about it.

nathansolomon: Hmm, I think publishers will dive in wherever there's $. I remember when EA first wanted to do mobile, and they were completely stunned by carriers' responses.

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): Joystiq has a weekly feature called "iPhone It In." John Davison discusses it on a regular basis. Patrick Klepek, formerlly of MTV Multiplayer, has just started a video podcast specifically focused on iPhone Gaming.

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Great, so mobile gaming's time is coming, and iPhone is largely the reason

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): Press is waking up to giving the mobile space a fair shake.

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): My hat's off to those leading the charge in the media. not nearly enough have figure this out

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Okay, for the last few minutes we're going to be fielding some reader questions

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): So, to start us off...

[Xfire] OliT (olit): Yay, go go user questions!

 

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Salvenius (sh4dowj): With PC and console gaming being aimed towards more multiplayer games, do you think Mobile gaming will follow suit or will there be still a mixture of singleplayer and muliplayer games?

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): LifeFire will be 100% competitive multiplayer shooter on iphone/itouch and you will se more of this as well

nathansolomon: From a technology perspective, it's long been one of the most built out aspects of mobile games, as it was always felt to be a core strength

Antoine (Nokia) (antoinedoumenc): Defeneaty both, but always on and connectivity of mobile device will bring a very large part to socially related features.

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): Many of the casual mmos form social networks have already taken basic MP to iphone

Antoine (Nokia) (antoinedoumenc): Multiplayer is one, but the social side I think we become a trademark of the mobile gaming.

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): I think the platform is better suited for single-player games -- that has something to do with the network the device is connected to. But multiplayer games exist and are being made.

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Indeed. Asychronous social gaming rather than multiplayer has been a focus for mobile platforms so far. Will that change over time?

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): Every time I see N'Gai Croal twitter about his latest WordFu score I want to delete the game and forget I ever installed it. Social media coming into the mobile space is the most exciting part of mobile gaming.

Antoine (Nokia) (antoinedoumenc): The networks are evolving fast, more and more near real tie will appear. In game communication, social element and interaction with players are the way a lot lot of games concepts are taking.

nathansolomon: It's hard to say, because it depends on users adopting a new sort of scheduling to enable it, and that will be dependent upon compelling gameplay

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): is N'Gai *that* good at WordFu ;)

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Okay, here's a question for the developers and would-be developers:

 

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Salvenius (sh4dowj): If you could port any game to the mobile phone, what would you pick and why?

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): The problem is, for me as a Canadian, the network access here is very poor and expensive. HotSpots aren't as common up North, so I tend to stick to single-player games.

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): Re: N'Gai, Yes... it's maddening!

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): I wouldn't port because it wouldn't translate as well as something crafted for the device/platform

Antoine (Nokia) (antoinedoumenc): Would not port ... innovate and stand out.

[Xfire] OliT (olit): Unfortunately, we're starting to get quite close to the end of the debate (it all went by so fast!), but let's do another couple of questions, and then we'll finish this up

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): Games made specifically with the hardware in mind is what the mobile space needs to set it apart from the rest of the industry.

[Xfire] OliT (olit): Remember, we'll put up the full transcript for this chat at www.xfire.com/debate

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): There are universes/franchises I would take over to handheld though :)

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): If that answer isn't suitable then Chrono Trigger is the right answer.

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Good choice. Okay, let's wrap it up with a final question

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): The big one

 

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Mobile gaming - fad or future?

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): "now"

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): and window into the future

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): I don't think of it the way my parents did when I grew up. It is what we have. And, if publishers and press and consumers pay attention to what requires attention (Re: None of that iFart crap) it will still be around in the future.

Antoine (Nokia) (antoinedoumenc): Defeneatly a very fast growing opportunity for the video games industry . Next to the existing consoles platforms. Ignoring it would be a dangerous path.

nathansolomon: Hmm, I think it's not a meaningful question. What if you have an adaptor to plug an iPhone into your television, or everyone gets a netbook with mobile phone service?

[Xfire] OliT (olit): Well

nathansolomon: It's an artificial differentiation that won't be visible five years from now, or will be totally different

[Xfire] OliT (olit): I think that we're actually nearing the finish line for this debate. I would have wanted it to last for another hour, but unfortunately we aren't that lucky

[Xfire] OliT (olit): I'd like to thank all of you, Rob for moderating, Antoine, Xav, Nathan and Chris for debating and all the users for debating and sending us your questions

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): There's entertainment you can tke with you (or always have with you) and entertainment you have to go to directly. there will always be both, but the stuff you can keep with you is getting better every day and now eating into traditional gaming time

Antoine (Nokia) (antoinedoumenc): Thanks to you. That was good to chat on that topic.

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): Thanks for the invite - this was fun!

nathansolomon: Thanks, it was quite interesting

Chris from ngmoco:) (cplummer): Good to meet everyone

[PG] Rob Hearn (masterheywood): Here here

[Joystiq] Xav (xavdm): Thank you everyone.

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): thanks everyone

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): for attending :)

[Xfire] OliT (olit): and the users are thanking you as well!

[Xfire] OliT (olit): Well, I'm out. Make sure to check the debate page for the transcript tomorrow: www.xfire.com/debate

[Xfire] OliT (olit): and welcome back for the next debate

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): bye all!