SoLiD (epeyon7): Does f2p has less to offer then p2p?  Frist question

D8.GhostRecruit (ghostrecruit): Thanks mods

reaver789: sooo many chats

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): How about both have their perks?

Leeds© (leedsmauler): F2P RS has less to offer than P2P RS yes

WNxMistique (crack717): Yes solid , Ofcourse

celodmk (celodmk): hey ppl

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): yes i agree

Dr. GonZo (javnm): how about a fallout 3 mmo?

Leeds© (leedsmauler): However, F2P RS still provides a good 4000 hours of gametime

D8.GhostRecruit (ghostrecruit): This is where having 3 screens comes in handy!

cim-pim-param (kestorius): good evening

Ðønut (alpha064): Fallout 3 will never make it as an mmo

Zhang (zhange): agreed

Wuzimu (wuzimu8): i am very conflicted between the two, p2p and f2p

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): i thot fallout 3 sucked its to hard to play

Ðønut (alpha064): its a good game

Ðønut (alpha064): it was just frustrating at points

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): ya but its hard

Dr. GonZo (javnm): its not hard to play

united.Gen.Death_Angel (jsm142003): nsh you just aren't good

Moneo (deathmoneo): fallout 3 isnt an mmo either

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): like finding ammo and stuff

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): :O

Riobux (lostchances): Wuizmu, if you want confusing then give The Witcher a shot.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): though, it is a testament to the dedication of the  company that they can continue to offer the free version of runescape to players with as much as it has and for so long

SoLiD (epeyon7): Well the reason it does is because p2p wanst to reward their income.

Leeds© (leedsmauler): I still enjoy the good old P2P MMOs, such as RS

Kieran/unpk | Lynx WA (lucifrez): F2P will almost always have less content than P2P. People simply do not have the resources to create as much content if they do not make the money.

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): Well, the question is: Define "offer"?  Are you referring to the features of the game or are you referring to what the player will get out of it?

[WPWW]Masteroa (masteroa): RS is wrong, they made a big fault to make the wilderniss away

cool1990 (hovo1990): is huxley igh budget f2p game or not?

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): ya its fun just really hard

Oxide (oxidius120): STOP SPAM

D8.GhostRecruit (ghostrecruit): Do people mind paying for games?

Leeds© (leedsmauler): However, one thing I would like to look at is Friends Lists

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): Rly guys stop spaming

Zhang (zhange): Now than! shall er begin with a quick debate on F2P Grapgics vs. P2P?

btwbetchFU (garbanian): The Beth. company couldn't make an MMO really. A lot of mods and add on's, or patches are all user made. It wouldn't go well.

SoLiD (epeyon7): Well WoW is great because it had a budget.

D8.GhostRecruit (ghostrecruit): Or are there some people here who only play free 2 play?

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): I dont mind paying for a good game

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): like wow

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): u act like bunch of 4y olds in F2p mmo

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): i play btoh

Ðønut (alpha064): I'm here for F2P

united.Gen.Death_Angel (jsm142003): i only play F2P

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): XD

[WPWW]Masteroa (masteroa): ss

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): gives me ultimate gaming experience

WNxMistique (crack717): Yeah , When its a good game , Why not pay for it ?

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): Runescape did that to prevent scammers and such, according to the new Jagex ceo

blindsniperzerox: sorry guys i wanted to debate but star trek enterprise is on

Weasel (nweasel): I don't mind paying for games, but it has to be worth it of course. For me, I'm just not someone who would play WoW, because I don't find it worth my time.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): The only problem I have with p2p games is the intial cost: You have to pay 50 dollars or whatever for the inital game and you only get a month free game play (usually) and with a month you may not even know if you want to pay - you're forced into it. You shouldn't have to pay the initial 50 dollars or you should at least get a bit more for your money to 'try it out'.

blindsniperzerox: peace be safe

cool1990 (hovo1990): tried quake live and rocks

=CMD= - ₮ｻ∑ Sh0tmaker (shotmaker303): WoW=2MOONS

reaver789: i dont get how any game is Pay to play

Ðønut (alpha064): I hated 2Moons imo

SoLiD (epeyon7): I play f2p but sometimes when it get good i turn p2p on the same game.

Leeds© (leedsmauler): Yes, RS took away the wilderness to stop Real World Trading

Weasel (nweasel): @Marvin Depends. with something like EVE, you can download it off their website.

Tasha (tashadarke): I don't mind handing over cash if a game grabs me and I think i'll play it more than 3-4 nights a month.  There isn't really much else you can do in more time than that for the amount of an mmo subscription

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): 2moons... good graphics, but boring

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): yes, though I would not pay extravagant amounts of money to play it, runescape has a reasonable p2p price

Zhang (zhange): Agreed cost a gig factor

btwbetchFU (garbanian): @ d8. Ghost. I feel, a lot of the time, playing F2P mmo's are a lot of the time, more expensive than playing any of the P2P games.

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): Because I tell you, most ASEANs get more out of F2P than P2P!

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): yes i agree

reaver789: server upkeep is not expensive replace ppl with bots

WNxMistique (crack717): Reaver , Its their job.

cool1990 (hovo1990): try rom

Riobux (lostchances): I think people need to appreciate how much Runescape really contributed to the MMORPG genre. I can't think of a MMORPG before Runescape to be honest. The least they did was give the MMORPG genre a shove into the mainstream which helped people like Blizzard fully appreciate the genre as an idea.

btwbetchFU (garbanian): People end up pyaing 100's, some even 1000's on cash shops.

celodmk (celodmk): i dont like pying for games like wow

united.Gen.Death_Angel (jsm142003): eve online is a god game

united.Gen.Death_Angel (jsm142003): good

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): zomg the eve guy is on here!!

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): also, runscape is trying to improve its f2p worlds

celodmk (celodmk): i rather play guild wars

Leeds© (leedsmauler): Personally, I find that move to be an excellent one. They're a cheap MMO (£3.50 a month ain't half bad!) and still recording a profit

Moneo (deathmoneo): i noticed that theres ALOT of japanese or japanese-like f2p mmos

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Games are pay to play because the servers need to be maintained. That's why they usually have the better servers - granted that they are a succesfull MMO such as WoW

Ðønut (alpha064): I like how you can use ingame money to buy a monthy Eve subscription

Dr. GonZo (javnm): for me thae game has to be worth it

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): Arend you are on of my heroes :)

Ðønut (alpha064): its inventive, if more games did that I'd play P2P games

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): eve is very well worht 10$ a month

=CMD= - ₮ｻ∑ Sh0tmaker (shotmaker303): shhhh important people speakin xD

[TTHS] Salvenius (sh4dowj): Personally I prefer free to play, not because I don't have to pay but because they "feel" different than to P2P. I have played World of Warcraft and after a day I forgot about it, it didn't appeal to me and now it sits on my shelf along with one of the expansions. Yet I would happily play Last Chaos a F2P game made by Aeria studios, same makers of Shaylia and many other MMO's. Not only that but F2P games give you a chance to get into the beta tests and if you are considering getting into the gaming industry as a tester then this is a good way to start

Leeds© (leedsmauler): Yea, I mean what's with ASDA Story, and Pi Story

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): hi

Riobux (lostchances): Granted, Runescape has failed badly to keep up with the competition, but come on, give them some credit.

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): it's getting to the point the p2p runescape is just an expansion

Dr. GonZo (javnm): like i comics i played city of heroes for over 39 months

Yanxa (yanxa): Shut up and read the important people, guys!

Weasel (nweasel): @Donut That's a very interesting idea that I feel other games should try using actually.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): Yes i must agree with riobux, runescape revolutionized online gaming, and it continues to be popular

Leeds© (leedsmauler): Those free MMOs just look really uninteresting to me

Zhang (zhange): Agreed on the server fee in P2P, also employee fees

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): FIRST QUESTION: BloodyMess (colafran): What are your 3 favorite Free 2 Play games, What are your 3 favorite Pay 2 Play games?

 

united.Gen.Death_Angel (jsm142003): yea ttru but isn't there another way to pay for that stuff

Weasel (nweasel): That's such a terrible question, haha.

Kieran/unpk | Lynx WA (lucifrez): Runescape did truelly make the MMORPG world. It was one of the first set up, had millions of players, and when you were young, its the thing you played!

Zhang (zhange): which maybe a reason some if not most in my oppinion F2P suffers

Weasel (nweasel): Everyone is going to say their own games.

Weasel (nweasel): :P

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): lol no punches pulled..

SoLiD (epeyon7): Knight Online, Runescape, Cabal Online

Zhang (zhange): Agreed weasel =)

Leeds© (leedsmauler): My favourite free to play games, I have one. 3 favour P2P games, are RollerCoaster Tycoon 3 (single-fee), RuenScape, and World of Warcraft

Ðønut (alpha064): Guild Wars, Silk Road, Bloodymare

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): I don't know actually. I play too many and there's a huge variety. I did enjoy Guild Wars and Age of Conan for p2p but now play neither.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): i think, runescape, and wow, along with seafight

Leeds© (leedsmauler): I mean none for fave f2p

Wuzimu (wuzimu8): xD, i agree, were all fan boys of the game were play, lol

Weasel (nweasel): But then again, if you don't love your own games, then you shouldn't be making it.

celodmk (celodmk): runescape, bots, and 2 moons

Zhang (zhange): Saga aswell

Oxide (oxidius120): Wow,Eve online,runescape,

speedrockracer (speedrockracer): olny played wow as p2p game and lotro like lotor more... i havnt found any f2p mmos that rly got me interested

Weasel (nweasel): I am a fan of Guild Wars and EVE Online, personally.

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): i dont got the computer or money to handle 3 f2p and 3 p2p

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): guildwars never played that b4

WNxMistique (crack717): Guild wars Runescape , Silkroad  F2P

WoW P2P !

mclazyj: Guild Wars has been kind to me

Riobux (lostchances): I can't say I have any free to play games. I'm sorry, but I just have yet to find something that grabbed my interest. Although I was into Runescape for a while. For P2P, World Of Warcraft would be a clear first. Followed by Guild Wars then finally that Lord Of The Rings game.

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): i love eve

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): F2P  Slikroad , Atlantica and... Cabal ..... P2P deffinetaly WoW, EvE and ofcourse Lotro

=SoA= Ħǿłŧ §¢årþãïn (afandur): i definately like guild wars for F2P

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): fan of Eve here

Moneo (deathmoneo): myfave p2p has to be wow i guess.

cool1990 (hovo1990): best f2p,ROM,quake live,Megaten,Atlantica online,for now

[TTHS] Salvenius (sh4dowj): My favourite free to play would be Battlefield Heroes (even though it is still in beta), Last Chaos and Shaylia...my favourte pay to play...well I don't play any

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): One question to begin with, do you count games with micro-payments or premium accounts as P2P or F2P? Anarchy Online for example?

Ðønut (alpha064): I've played GW for years, its its definitely winner for F2P

SoLiD (epeyon7): Well i've never started off paying in a mmorpg, but i usually end in p2p mode hehe

btwbetchFU (garbanian): F2P = Sword of the New World, I guess Lunia and Dragonica, what I've played of it. p2P = FFXI, Eve and LOTR.

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): Yeah for years I've been trying to find good F2P games, it's borderline impossible

=CMD= - ₮ｻ∑ Sh0tmaker (shotmaker303): LOTRO FTW!!

Tasha (tashadarke): Guild Wars, Perfect World, WoW. CoV

Zhang (zhange): SHIA aswell, cant spell it ^^;

mclazyj: I played Star Wars Galaxies, The matrix Online and Everquest II, but they just did not hold my attention

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): lol uo rite on buddy!!

Ðønut (alpha064): free gameplay after a fee, and the graphics and gameplay isn't bad

Riobux (lostchances): I don't know...Is Guild Wars really a F2P?

Moneo (deathmoneo): and f2p is silkroad, flyff.

celodmk (celodmk): I like Star wars: empire at war

Riobux (lostchances): You still have to buy it.

Weasel (nweasel): But then again, I have a question. What would you consider Guild Wars? Seriously. It's F2P yes, but, you have to buy the game first, so it's P2P FIRST. I think it's almost it's OWN catagory, you know what I mean?

Ðønut (alpha064): it sort of is

Dr. GonZo (javnm): Free dofus, guild wars and eve to pay, Lotro, CoH and WAR

Zhang (zhange): In a sense Guild wars is

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): Personally, Guild Wars is B2P - Buy-to-Play

[WPWW]Masteroa (masteroa): Guild Wars is a great game for F2F as P2P

btwbetchFU (garbanian): Guild wars, it isn't for everyone.

Ðønut (alpha064): Guild Wars you only pay about 40 bucks when you buy it

celodmk (celodmk): i agree

Yanxa (yanxa): EaW isn't a p2p or f2p

Ðønut (alpha064): then you play it free forever

btwbetchFU (garbanian): Not all people play games for the PVP.

Zhang (zhange): its right in the middle I would say

Weasel (nweasel): Exactly laibcoms

Weasel (nweasel): It's B2P

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): hmm.. very hard to follow this chat

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): Donus: but you have to pay for the addons

Zhang (zhange): Ineed

Wuzimu (wuzimu8): yes, i know what you mean weasel, as your not paying monthly, but you still had to pay to get the game...

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): Donut*

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): so many games like 9Dragons, 2Moon, Flyff,  they're all just mass produced games that are nearly identical but with 1 different aspect between them

WNxMistique (crack717): Guild wars his pvp isn't that good imo

Praesul (danathstromgarde): i would consider Guild Wars to be a single player game with a Lobby Room

SoLiD (epeyon7): I only play mmorpg or the pvp adrenaline.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): GW is just any regular game with free servers. That's what I'd consider it. It's like a shooter but instead you get the massive online community

=CMD= - ₮ｻ∑ Sh0tmaker (shotmaker303): 2MOONS sucks cause u can only play it in certain countries

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): is GW pvp-based totallly?

Ðønut (alpha064): well the expansions are option

Kieran/unpk | Lynx WA (lucifrez): Question: Do you agree that WoW completely dominates the MMORPG universe? And do you think that this is a good thing for MMORPGs, or does it ruin the chance of other MMORPG's too big?

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): Donut: with Eve, you pay each month, but you don't have to pay for addons...

And then there's WoW, which combines both

Ðønut (alpha064): they don't force you to buy them or anything

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): F2P? I'd say Tabula Rasa at the moment... However, only 4 days to go. About P2P, EVE Online and nothing else.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): runescape i enjoy as a p2p game,

Weasel (nweasel): @LukA No.

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): Donut: if you want to keep up, you have to

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): Okay

D8.GhostRecruit (ghostrecruit): Acording to xfire - WOW dominates

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): It's sort of the way Hellgate was except that in Hellgate you had the option of becoming a subscriber (For the 'extras')

Riobux (lostchances): What was that space game that was around a while ago?

Tasha (tashadarke): No Luka I'm playing PvE atm

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): it all depends on the gamer to which game they like

=CMD= - ₮ｻ∑ Sh0tmaker (shotmaker303): 1st right?

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): WoW dominates in fantasy genre only...

Moneo (deathmoneo): i heard tabula rasa had a heck load of ads in it

Riobux (lostchances): Where you pilot a ship and so on?

Dr. GonZo (javnm): not all pc gamers use xfire

WNxMistique (crack717): Wow doesn't dominate ;) Its just a good game , It dominates in fantasy games

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): but i heard lvl 20 was max- is that true?

united.Gen.Death_Angel (jsm142003): eve

Riobux (lostchances): It was a MMORPG.

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): yes

Tasha (tashadarke): @Luka yes

Riobux (lostchances): Yeah, Eve.

WNxMistique (crack717): Yeah luka , level 20 is max

mclazyj: I just cannot sustain the cost of those pay MMO games

Zhang (zhange): @ Kieran: Without a doubt, they have the highest level of players if not highest mainstream appeal

Ðønut (alpha064): I find it more worth it to shovel out money for a Guild Wars expansion since you only pay one price, and nothing more, rather then 15 a month like WoW

Leeds© (leedsmauler): World of Warcraft. I don't think it does dominate the MMORPG universe. I mean look at RuneScape, to this day it remains to be extremely popular. JaGEx (makers of RS) still make a profit on RuneScape

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): so it's not much of PVE :)

Riobux (lostchances): God, that game was aweful.

united.Gen.Death_Angel (jsm142003): Rio it was eve online

Weasel (nweasel): @LukA Yes.

~MAJOR.Patterson~ (majorpatterson): Thing with Gw is you can buy the game stop playing for 2 years come back and you still have all your stuff as for p2p games after a timer period ur account usally gets deleted

btwbetchFU (garbanian): What WoW does, it does right, obviously. No matter what people say. I haven't played it, but it isn't doing anything wrong.

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): EvE, EvE, EvE one more time

mclazyj: they are just too much out of my pocketbook

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): There's other elements to Guild Wars rather than just getting to max level though

Weasel (nweasel): @LukA But, it's not all about grinding. Personally, I don't enjoy grinding that much.

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): "Fantasy MMO", I will say yes, WoW Dominates.  However, outside of that genre and outside the MMO space, no.

cool1990 (hovo1990): played perfect world after 20 level dropped ,too much grind

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Every MMO is different in that sense

mclazyj: and the time needed to sink into them is even worse

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): That's simply the best P2P game I've ever seen

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): Me neither

SoLiD (epeyon7): WoW is smart, they started with a budget and made a great game. They let people continue paying to keep updatin gand updating so they keep payin gand paying. It's pure marketing and yet benefits both sides.

Praesul (danathstromgarde): i would have to say; define "Dominates" WoW dominates the MMO-arena for sure

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): i agree

=CMD= - ₮ｻ∑ Sh0tmaker (shotmaker303): TurbineAdamMersky i want to say thankyou xD

D8.GhostRecruit (ghostrecruit): Arn't there loads of hackers for F2P games?

btwbetchFU (garbanian): F2P games will always have grind. Whether its quest grind or killing.

cool1990 (hovo1990): ikariam reallly great one

btwbetchFU (garbanian): Not all games have hackers.

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): But dominating title is not always the best... And WoW is a great example here

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): WoW does dominate at the moment, but I can see it becoming like Everquest in the very near future if it keeps cranking out expansion packs, especially if the expansions aren't up to players standards

Riobux (lostchances): I'm not sure if it's because I couldn't really get into the space fighter thing in Eve, but I just couldn't enjoy it.

Praesul (danathstromgarde): however, it is a bad thing because everyone expects the next MMO to be better than WoW and are let down when it isn't

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Depending on how good the system is there's autobans

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): i agree with the thing about fantasy mmos, there are an extreme amount of them out there, some seem similar, while yet others have significant differences

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): NEXT QUESTION: BloodyMess (colafran): It seems as though fantasy MMO’s are a dime a dozen, can any of you tell the difference between them?

 

Ðønut (alpha064): GW is more focused on PvE while WoW is a mix of both, which is a slight benefit

SoLiD (epeyon7): In every game u see hackers.

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): Be honest, there are lots of games better than WoW

Ðønut (alpha064): but the thought of monthly fees still lingers

Yanxa (yanxa): Surely the space fighter theme in EVE is it's appeal?

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): If their system doesn't work they lose their people. So there are hackers but usually it's all taken care of

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): lol diff between harry potter and lordof the rings

cool1990 (hovo1990): i think wow's kinda f2p for now

=CMD= - ₮ｻ∑ Sh0tmaker (shotmaker303): warhammer online is good

Moneo (deathmoneo): ive always been thinking this

HRaiser (arcangept): What's the mais stufs that make a good MMO. F2P or P2P

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): how is wow f2p?

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): WoW kinda f2p? what do you mean?

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): well, free to play sure sounds nice, but it can be real similar to pay to play, when you have to buy tons of addons

=CMD= - ₮ｻ∑ Sh0tmaker (shotmaker303): it takes for ever to level though

{{KKS}} Akoda (kaltheronin): I enjoy mabinogi

Weasel (nweasel): It's obvious WoW dominates the market (10+Mil), but Guild Wars is closing in (8+Mil?). And look at EVE, they pride themselves on Concurrent Users Online (can't remember the acronym).

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): In my oppinion there're only two types of fantasy MMO - Quest grind based and Mob grind based ones

[Xfire-TTHS] Paddy (ragdollsuk): aw i love wow

Moneo (deathmoneo): what makes wow such an addicting and good mmo?

SoLiD (epeyon7): Better is a big word lol, u most see every game in a different angle.

~MAJOR.Patterson~ (majorpatterson): EvE > WoW

cool1990 (hovo1990): graphics wise

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): ya, as i said, the gamers decide the game

Predus (arturf): WoW> EvE

Kieran/unpk | Lynx WA (lucifrez): WoW has the best community aspect hands down.

cool1990 (hovo1990): and other aspects too

Yanxa (yanxa): Almost all p2p and f2p games are about trolls and goblins and the like - a good sci-fi game like EVE is surely needed in f2p form?

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): eve definatly beter then wow

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): I agree.  That's where and when F2P gamers are teased to "spend money".  You need XP booster?  Buy our Item.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): and they make the mmo experience

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): MAJOR, I'm an EvE player, but seriously -- it doesn't matter

Predus (arturf): yea

Weasel (nweasel): EVE and WoW are hard to compare... they're a different genre.

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): WOW has 13 million players +

Ðønut (alpha064): Eve>WoW definitely in P2P

00zian00: the WoW community sucks

Leeds© (leedsmauler): Hmm, RuneScape and World of Warcraft are miles apart. RuneScape is all about variation in quests, and 24 different skills, no limits on what ya can do. World of Warcraft, ya limited to 2 skills. I think RS is for those who prefer freedom and WoW for those who prefer a set path as such

~MAJOR.Patterson~ (majorpatterson): hey now

Predus (arturf): F2P

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): and this chat isn't about what game beats what

cool1990 (hovo1990): but it's amazingly polished

Tasha (tashadarke): Which game is "better" is a matter of opinion.  You ask 20 people you're gonna get a different opnion.  Not everyone looks for the same thing in any genre of game, thats why different titles suceed

Predus (arturf): problem

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): besides, Weasel has a point

D8.GhostRecruit (ghostrecruit): I hate games that call themselfs "F2P" - But are actually rubbish unless you spend loads on "Add on's".

Predus (arturf): is that there are items for money

00zian00: most people don't speak to you

btwbetchFU (garbanian): I agree Tasha.

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): Eve and WoW are two completely different things

~MAJOR.Patterson~ (majorpatterson): i'v played both so its an opition rly

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): ya

Weasel (nweasel): @Tasha Agreed.

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): it's like comparing an RTS to a FPS

Predus (arturf): Darkman - yep

cool1990 (hovo1990): ROM,it's kinda clone of WOW,but needs polish

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): agreed with Tasha

Ðønut (alpha064): The only similiarity between WoW and Eve is that they're mmos

Moneo (deathmoneo): ROM?

[Xfire] Artaxs (artaxs): That's a great point, Yanxa -- where are the Free 2 Play SPACE games?

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): as already stated

=CMD= - ₮ｻ∑ Sh0tmaker (shotmaker303): so many hacks 4 RS

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Both P2P and F2P have their own marketing scheme. P2P is 'pay us a monthly fee, in return you get free updates and amazing servers. Once in a while you can pay a bit extra for a big expansion'

cool1990 (hovo1990): Atlantica online,f2p final fantasy

[TTHS] Salvenius (sh4dowj): Totally agreed Tasha, although that's where Fanboys come into the mix

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): yeah the fantasy mmos look very similar sometimes,

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): yea

united.Gen.Death_Angel (jsm142003): haha yea they do

Weasel (nweasel): Anyways, let's think about the question that was offered. What's the difference in the fantasy MMOs?

Tasha (tashadarke): I think a lot of what makes an MMO "good" is the community you find inside it and that can be related to F2P and P2P

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): Marvin: some games have free expansions though... But the thing about F2P is that they tend to sell expansions (which you have to buy in order to keep up)

Dr. GonZo (javnm): To me its prefrence, there will be no clear winner for the best mmo, no matter how hard you fight for what you like

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): I think the community is one factor leading to Eve's rising dominance-The whole one server-one economy concept has been attempted for years and Eve seems to tackle it head-on

SoLiD (epeyon7): Not all games do great updates when u go p2p.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): F2P is 'Play our whole game for free. But wait, if you pay extra money you get all these things that put you above the other players.' So technically speaking the person who pays is always off better.

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): Most MMOS are completely different things. Not comparable, but they still fall udner some form of f2p or p2p which is the subject here, not which is cooler or more epic, lol.

Riobux (lostchances): I think there are sometimes clear differences and sometimes little to no differences. Because everyone basically loves the whole "elves, dwarves, etc" thing, it's never gotten old. Most MMORPG players just love the idea of being a knight or so on defeating beasts. Not even the stereotype mother's-basement-dwellers but the average guy. Sure, there are some MMORPG types for other things like Eve, but fantasty worlds with evles, dwarves and so on are the common favourite.

Predus (arturf): 'F2P is 'Play our whole game for free. But wait, if you pay extra money you get all these things that put you above the other players.' So technically speaking the person who pays is always off better.'

cool1990 (hovo1990): Rom will recieve a free expansion,and atlantica too

Predus (arturf): yep it's true

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): though one of the things someone must realize is that its the gamer choice, as many i have met determine the sex of a gamer by the sex of the character, that could be incorrect

Zhang (zhange): Agreed Marvin, and with F2P you get time in a sense in that your not a stressed when you dont play becouse you arent wasting money on "nothing:

Yanxa (yanxa): Star Wars Galaxies - 3-4 expansions, base game and monthly pay - surley that's over the top?

Predus (arturf):  Narvub? :D

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): F2P aren't really 100% free to play when you look at with technical terms

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): marvin-good point. conquer online is the best example where cash shopper dominate completely.

Predus (arturf): Marvin*

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): Predus: exactly

Kieran/unpk | Lynx WA (lucifrez): Question: What is your opinion on add-on items inside F2P games. Is it right that you should get an unfair advantage on everyone else just because you donate to them.

Predus (arturf): last time

Predus (arturf): I play

btwbetchFU (garbanian): Theres different levels of fantasy though. You can have the whole fantasy setting, but if the story doesn't follow up, its not going too many places. It has to have the whole thing.

Predus (arturf): Shin Megame Tensei: Imagine

Weasel (nweasel): @Riobux See, but I got bored with that. While I still love Guild Wars and will go back to it anytime, I wanted something DIFFERENT, which is why I chose EVE, know what I mean?

Tasha (tashadarke): @Kerian: I hate it personally

SoLiD (epeyon7): Most mmorpg just steal eachothers idea's lol, some r unique but most new ones are just an copy of multiple games united.

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): Next Question: (sorry I'm a bit slow) BloodyMess (colafran): Are Pay 2 Pay Developers pressured to make their games bigger compared to Free 2 Play Games?

 

Leeds© (leedsmauler): The differences in the fantasy MMOs vary between certain games. I'll specificially hone in on WoW and RS. World of Warcraft's quests for example are like RuneScape's slayer (speak to Character X, kill Y of enemy Z) whereas RuneScape does so much more

Predus (arturf): it was great but after few hours

Predus (arturf): i saw thing for money

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): well, you can even count EVE as F2P

cool1990 (hovo1990): i really hate those,that you pay and get powerful ,that's why i like rom and atlantica online

Weasel (nweasel): @Debate Almost... yes.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): I love how windows update comes up during an xfire debate...just my luck =/

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): if you are good enough, of course

=CMD= - ₮ｻ∑ Sh0tmaker (shotmaker303): i dont like the fact that RS is click to go

HRaiser (arcangept): why in all MMO that have chars with sword and Shield that all use magic skils insted of sword skills?

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): ya eve is fre for 10day or somn

cool1990 (hovo1990): Project Torque good one

btwbetchFU (garbanian): They dont HRaiser.

Riobux (lostchances): Of course, but they don't mind the extra effort because they get paid through monthly fees.

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): Kieran, simply put.. YES. You're funding the game and therefore gain an advantagem but in most cases it's not a whole advantage over the game..

united.Gen.Death_Angel (jsm142003): yea i never liked the clicking to move

cim-pim-param (kestorius): not all

SoLiD (epeyon7): Yes offcourse. I won't pay for a good game if a better game is f2p.

=CMD= - ₮ｻ∑ Sh0tmaker (shotmaker303): Most P2P is free 4 a month

Ðønut (alpha064): Guild Wars is either click to move or WASD movement

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): for the main floor: If money was no object (but you had to charge for games), which would you prefer -- P2P or F2p?

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): LotRO just had a 10-day trial thing I used to check it out. It was a 14GB download though (Lol)

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): yes, f2p content in games is getting more advanced and p2p games are having to change more and more

Riobux (lostchances): While F2P are willing to live off other things.

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): remember that it's probably the only mmo where you can pay for your subscription using in-game currency

[TTHS] Salvenius (sh4dowj): Can you tell the difference?  Yes and no really but I think that is the clever part of marketing on the company's side of things. You become curious and so you look deeper into it, by the time you realise it, you are in the game and become "one of them" ^_^

Zhang (zhange): @Kieran: it depends on the game I think, if its a PVE RPG than no I dont, becouse its not really affgecting eeveryone else

Weasel (nweasel): If I'm paying for a game, I want it to be worth paying for. Not to say that free games aren't necessarily, but, I'm just not as big of a fan of them...

Wuzimu (wuzimu8): yes, you usually get first month free with purchase of game, like WoW

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): (okay, you can do the same in RLC too, but well... :p)

cool1990 (hovo1990): Parabellum rocks

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): ya but there are good F2P games to like cod and aoe and all them

Predus (arturf): yep if you buy game you have pre-paid for the money which you paid ;d

Zhang (zhange): However with games like SAGA where stratagey is key, than yes, an unfiar advantage I

SoLiD (epeyon7): If you pay for a game u want to see more and more and more all teh time, u most have teh feeling: " I pay for a reason "

Yanxa (yanxa): A close up character - where you actually get to know the character - would make for a much better MMo than one where you click and point to move a character with no decerable features.

Riobux (lostchances): To be honest though Wuz, you've basicallty bought a month.

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): I completely agree with you weasel.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Well if you got nothing for your first dollars what the hell's the point? Hey guys, I bought this game. Install. 'Credit card pls' Whaaaaaat?

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): if money were no object, I'd stil likely support f2p over p2p, I don't like the idea of a subscription over what could be a game I only play for 30 days on and off based on schedules and such anyhow.

Weasel (nweasel): Yeah, I greatly dislike Microtransactions.

Weasel (nweasel): Bleh.

=CMD= - ₮ｻ∑ Sh0tmaker (shotmaker303): whens debate over BTW?

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): ;lol yep

Riobux (lostchances): The WoW disc costs about £20.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): no way, quality does not equal size,

Leeds© (leedsmauler): True, but there are some exceptional P2P games too. Look at RuneScape, look at World of Warcraft. Those 2 alone probably dominate the MMO world

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): I want continously content updates if I pay for a game. I want it to feel balanced, fun, innovativbe

Weasel (nweasel): And that's what F2P uses.

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): 6

Ðønut (alpha064): 6:00

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): 1hr long

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): That's actually happened to me before...my parents bought me a game for my birthday (I forget what it was) and I ended up not being able to play a single minute of it.

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): No way!!!!!  take GW for example

Kieran/unpk | Lynx WA (lucifrez): The main thing that moves me away from F2P games is that they give these special items which let you level up faster, or they give you a little extra power. People can gain levels a lot faster, I agree that it does not matter so much in PvE based games, but most games these days have PvP aspects because that is what people find most fun.

Predus (arturf): there are sometimes people who make a lot f2p mmorpg

=CMD= - ₮ｻ∑ Sh0tmaker (shotmaker303): k thanks

btwbetchFU (garbanian): "Good" is such a personal word. One thing can be good to someone, like Maple Story can be good to some people, and others can hate it. F2P MMO's are all a matter of opinion.

Weasel (nweasel): @Leeds Yes, but, let's think. What's the dominant age range of RuneScape?

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): 8-15

Riobux (lostchances): Haha, true.

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): Way too low.

Weasel (nweasel): Exactly.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): size is determined (in my opinion) by the content

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): yep

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): 11..  look at this guy.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sERNft7mM0E

00zian00: not true

Kieran/unpk | Lynx WA (lucifrez): Age range of runescapeis about 6-14

cool1990 (hovo1990): btwbecth totally right

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): Just like in WoW to be honest

=SoA= Ħǿłŧ §¢årþãïn (afandur): I hate it when pay to play games die though that is a big positive for F2P they generally last longer

cool1990 (hovo1990): matter of opinion

Leeds© (leedsmauler): I'd say 13-25 for RS, but I know a 63 year old who plays RuneScape.

Predus (arturf): and it's free but you have things for money and there are too many mmorpgs by this company and it's problem

Crash. snake.kL (crashchris): microtransactions can work very well if it wont be like things that will take advantage in the gameply or skills of players.. only things like appeal, or non gameply impactiful.

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): and Tibia of course

Riobux (lostchances): Not really like WoW.

00zian00: the age range for RS is about 15-20

Weasel (nweasel): The older generation looks for a more "mature" game.

Predus (arturf): Tibia!! Yeaaa

00zian00: maybe 15-25

Riobux (lostchances): I'd say the age range for WoW is 11 to 25.

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): @weasel: according to the site, from 12/13-middle-aged and older

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): Qyality = what the developers put in, some new MMOs have brilliant quality and grapics while remaining f2p, and some older f2p games are updating graphics as we speak,

Riobux (lostchances): It really is vast.

Yanxa (yanxa): Nah - you get the old codgers who play it too

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): lol

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): i think the 13-40 range might suffice

Riobux (lostchances): I do wonder, is it possible to be too old for MMORPGs?

Weasel (nweasel): @IOne What I expected.

Ðønut (alpha064): Sometimes P2P games are a complete flop and fail, like Tabula Rasa, and Auto Assault

btwbetchFU (garbanian): Mature gaming, it's all in the community. You can find older gamers in all games, if you look enough. Most of the games have older people in their own clans.

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): i dont think so

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): It really depends if the game was developed with "Item affecting gameplay" in mind.

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): Pain: P2P games are also updating graphics

Ðønut (alpha064): so its a waste of the gamer's money

Crash. snake.kL (crashchris): here's my opinion on the entire debate - http://www.xfire.com/xf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=217395

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): i must agree with arrend in some respects, some people think that since its f2p that its going to be cheap

00zian00: any ways jagex is planing on making more "mature" worlds for old players to play on in RS

Riobux (lostchances): I mean, I met someone on WoW the other day and he was 44.

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): Riobux, I doubt

Leeds© (leedsmauler): Riobux, I don't think it is possible to be too old for MMORPGs.

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): I will never be too old for morpgs, and alot of my gaming friends are older than me (I'm 28)

Moneo (deathmoneo): oh no, even older people play WoW. Even a WoW guildmaster won an oscar! no joke! He worked on benjamin button!

Weasel (nweasel): Exactly, my dad plays Guild Wars with me, and he's 50+!!

SoLiD (epeyon7): Well p2p is more mature then f2p, because most "kids" won't be able to get a creditcard. But lately they find out that u can allso pay cash using game cards.

[TTHS] Salvenius (sh4dowj): @Rio: Never too old unless you think it yourself

Zhang (zhange): Yes, its really about the time the developers can put into it, its the with P2P, except that F2P Devs are much more constrained in money I would think

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): ithere should be no age limit for anygames

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): again i must agree with arrend

Wuzimu (wuzimu8): too old? nah... no matter how old you are you will always have the urge to slay monsters, lol

Riobux (lostchances): It was kind of depressing when he was calling my little brother a nerd for being remotely serious on WoW.

Leeds© (leedsmauler): My school mates play World of Warcraft, but I play RuneScape.

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): Well on the other hand. Let's take  Archlord for example. It was P2P but because it didn't lived up to good quality it bacame F2P

Riobux (lostchances): It was really pathetic.

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): I've met a 64 years old guy in EVE

Predus (arturf): I know a lot of people older than 25 and playing WoW or other mmorpgs. Those games are NOT for 11-25.

Tasha (tashadarke): Its a shame that Hellgate went the way it did,  would have been interesting to see how it could have gone in the future

btwbetchFU (garbanian): I play a lot of MMO's with my friends parents. Some people like games, some don't.

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): Not true Solid, alot of kids have acces to p2p, and it shows.

Weasel (nweasel): @Tasha I agree, but sadly, it had issues.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): I think part of what makes an MMO good is the community it attracts. Games like Age of Conan attracted a lot more of the 'mature gamer' type (and those that just joined to strip their female characters) but on the contrary games like Maple Story attract a lot of the younger crowd and, honestly, there's different intentions in both schematics. When you look at Age of Conan you get the monthly, recurring fee for the more mature audiences and people will pay because they can. Maple Story is free to play with the extras because they know their kids will ask their parents to pay for them and there will be those that are 'rich' and can spend whatever they want on it. WoW is kind of an 'in between' as far as community is concerned.

Yanxa (yanxa): I guess it depends what you played when you grew up - my dad loves the whole Troll and Warmaster theme because of an arcade game he used to play.

Moneo (deathmoneo): whats up with the wow-hate bandwagon anyway?

cool1990 (hovo1990): i really love single player games,and if there was any way to implement that to mmo,with f2p model(that i'd rent episodes)that would be amazing,at least for me

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): Yes, credit card has become a filter separating those with credit cards (mostly college students or people with work) than the rest.

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): I dont know

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): actually I like WoW, because it keeps all the kids away from normal MMO games

Weasel (nweasel): @Marvin I do agree. It's really for what they market to.

Riobux (lostchances): Heh, my dad on the other hand can't touch computer games.

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): Predus: I think they meant the average age for WoW, but we seem to be straying off-topic a lot

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): so, age affects how a gamer views certain content in an mmorpg?

Ðønut (alpha064): because WoW is a singleplayer game turned MMO

btwbetchFU (garbanian): @Moneo. I don't think people want to accept the fact that the game is doing so well.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): one of the problems for a company offering a f2p mmo is the cost, the dont always have the funding if they must offer it free of charge

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): Yes, definatly Tasha. I bought the game @ midnight and played if continously for a while. However Hellgate: London did lack a cirtain.. spark

Ðønut (alpha064): which isn't innovative

Predus (arturf): Hellgate is bad :P

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): However, as you mentioned - game cards, or as we call it here in ASEAN - Pre-Paid Cards has become more popular.

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): IOnE: Age affects the userbase... Immature people are annoying, enuf said

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): I think Hellgate lacked a really good storyline, with tons of lore

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): very bad

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): NEXT QUESTION: BloodyMess (colafran): Currently all of the top F2P games are made in Asia. Do you think that this hinders their perceived quality.?

 

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): i bought it new

~MAJOR.Patterson~ (majorpatterson): Well here's the deal with me i'm 80% F2P to 20% P2P, depending on how much $$ you have in your pocket F2P will allow a greater # of ppl to play with, While P2P you are limited to a certain group of ppl ex: (Trying 2 get your friends 2 P2P your new game)

Dr. GonZo (javnm): WoW is a good game, but some people in the communites are just ass holes and jerks. thats the problem w/ some of these MMOs. communties build upon farming or something. not helping n00bs or just ruining peoples day or ruing a quest

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): made in asia?

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): only got on it twice

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Age affects a lot of things. Your characters in Maple are little guys with bright colors wheras in Age of Conan you're an actual person.

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): I agree Marvin, alot of complaints about MMOs are focused at the player base, I also tend to test the waters on any new MMO I play to see what I'm in for, as far as fellow players go.. If I see the word "noob" five times in the first 5 minutes, I'm out.

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): I think P2P games are pressured into making better games, which I believe is one reason WoW is making these expansions, because games such as Guild Wars and Eve (which is $5 a month cheaper) will dominate if players think that they are wasting their money, so Blizzard wants to make enough content to hold players' attentions for a long time, however this concept could easily ruin WoW if it gets out of hand, as new players will quickly lose track and only people who have payed over $100 for the expansions get the really cool stuff (like everquest) GW just barely  got through this by the skin of their teeth. If they had made 1 more expansion to GW1 then I think their fanbase would drop considerably.

Zhang (zhange): @Marvin: that is a big deal indeed for serious players

Weasel (nweasel): @Zunin Well, it was made by people who formerly worked @ Blizzard on Diablo, so it was a bit too similar...

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): but at least they admited to their mistake with hellgate

SoLiD (epeyon7): Patterson i agree i'm the same.

btwbetchFU (garbanian): It really does. People think of asian MMO's being only grinders and such, but look at games like C9 and TERA

Tasha (tashadarke): I agree Weasel, I was involved in pre alpha community of that game and had really really high hopes, unfortunately when i got into beta it wasn't polished enough with a week to go.  Which was surprising since the alpha for Mythos was really good.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): personally, i dont think that the location the games are made in does not matter

SoLiD (epeyon7): I start f2p but if the game gets good i can turn p2p.

Riobux (lostchances): Why does it matter where it's made? That's kind of racist.

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): no the quality of the game does

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): it doesnt

~MAJOR.Patterson~ (majorpatterson): Tho I do play both

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): and it shouldnt

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): brb

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): @question - it does not, but it does about playing style, if you know what I mean

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): True, the diffrenec is thouhg Weasel - the focus was more on combining alot of game genres

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): good games can be made anywhere

Weasel (nweasel): @Tasha Mm-hm. :)

Moneo (deathmoneo): As much as i played wow, i was astounded by the graphics and such. really sucks you into the world tho.

Ðønut (alpha064): MMOs made in Asia is nothing like that "Made in China" crap, it all depends on the quality the devs put into it, they don't just go "take that generic mmo and give it a new name" they take their time just as American and European devs.

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): and have come from everywhere

Weasel (nweasel): @Zunin Good poin.

Weasel (nweasel): *point

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): @darkman: so the community factors into the game in an important manner? you cant just play alone or with some friends and enjoy it?

Riobux (lostchances): The only thing that differes though, is the cutesy art style in some Asian games and the darkness in Western games.

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): I agree, it doesn't matter where the game was made.  Rather, where the gamer is playing from.  It isn't the game but the gamer.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): It doesn't matter where games are made. They just seem to have a knack for it. There's a huge gaming community over there, take South Korea's apparent addiction to Starcraft as an example. Location doesn't affect quality. The games that have gr8 (I say gr8 because it's gr8) quality will become popular and spread. If it's pure crap everyone will say 'That game sucks'

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): darkness wat u mean?

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): i think your generalizing too much there

Leeds© (leedsmauler): I didn't know that it was made in Asia mostly. But let's think about it. I think Tibia was made in the US, and it was really bad for me. Whereas I'm sure there's some Asia ones that are absolutely cracking. So I'd say it doesn't hinder the performance

Kieran/unpk | Lynx WA (lucifrez): Just because they are made in asia doesnt mean anything, there is a very big want for games in asia with gaming communities like japan and korea. They themselves have proven themselves that they can create good games.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): the game creating location can be unknown to players, but they wont care if thier into the game, it doesnt matter to the gamer, why should it matter to anyone else?

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): just because a game comes out of a certain region

SoLiD (epeyon7): Well knight online you have the USa servers they are full of turks and teh creators are forced to talk turkish. You had the turkish servers ( different game, same name )  every1 talked english.

[TTHS] Salvenius (sh4dowj): @Phoenix - Small time companies...indeed the cost does exceed them but look at EA/DICE and of course Aeria games. Aeria are a big MMO developer, they gain their money from mass use of advertisements on big gaming sites while EA/DICE use micro-transactions done in game (forn unique items like clothing that doesn't unbalance the game) while also gaining money from their investors and of course their huge grasp on the gaming industry

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): doesnt mean its automaticlly low quality

Predus (arturf): there is another problem with F2P they sometimes don't have new patches very often. They're like forgotten games

btwbetchFU (garbanian): Asian MMO's have been perceived as onyl grinders. They have gotten a bad rep. from that.

Weasel (nweasel): I agree though with the "F2P is in Asia". Personally, I don't see as many U.S. and English speaking players, which, I will admit, is a bit of a turnoff...

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): I think we'll see alot more domestic F2P games doing well, I honestly think that's the direction the industry is moving in, especially after success in other countries.. It's a follow the leader system, always has been. Unfortunately, in this situation it's the leaders having to learn to follow the little guys in order to survive.

Yanxa (yanxa): Is there actually a decent MMO - F2P or P2P - that wasn't made in China or America?

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): @Weasel Ditto

Weasel (nweasel): @Yanxa There are some from Japan actually.

Ðønut (alpha064): Mabinogi?

Weasel (nweasel): That are... okaay.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): You know, that would make for an interesting study though. Have the same game and call it a different name. Say one was made in America and one in Japan or whatever. See which one people are more apt to buy

Zhang (zhange): @Kody: I think that that is an issue with all games in general, I think new content is great, but if your getting at the idea of more and more content scaring players off, than I would agree to an extent aswell

cool1990 (hovo1990): In The East Grinding it's something normal,that doens't bore them,and most of them are grindfest,

Riobux (lostchances): Well, most games, movies and so on these days are kind of dark. If it's in the humour, the plot or even just the art style.

SoLiD (epeyon7): Yea japan makes 5000 a day.

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): I agree with Josh on the main floor, games from Asia don't seem to be as "all-round" as, say, WoW

Yanxa (yanxa): #Weasel - My bad. I meant Asia

Predus (arturf): yup Japanese mmorpgs are good usually :P

cool1990 (hovo1990): but in west we like quests

Weasel (nweasel): :)

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): quest?

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): Here in Asia, especially China, Japan, and Korea game devs, there is little factor when it comes to "RP" it is mostly about PVP

Moneo (deathmoneo): Lots of f2p asian games are very similiar in gameplay style really. I played silkroad and kal online... well... they pretty much are look-alikes

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): no we like action shoot em up bang bang lol

Kieran/unpk | Lynx WA (lucifrez): People who have a stereotypical view on things created in asia/china need to look at the bigger pictue. The masses of people in china will develop a lot of good developers which will create good games, whcih is all we want really.

cool1990 (hovo1990): personally that's why i dropped perfect world

[TTHS] Salvenius (sh4dowj): However on saying that, there have been many MMO's in the news lately that have shut down or began to shut down...unsure whether they are P2P or F2P but one of them was Age of Conan I believe

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): There in the West, it is more about RP than PVP.

Moneo (deathmoneo): just that silkroad gives you more freedom with the character uniqueness

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): ya

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): that is a good point, sometimes the culture differences can collide and i have played some mmo's where they have a definite asian feel

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): mmorps need to have a large amount of storyline and questing

Weasel (nweasel): Well, that's a good point actually. Hang on. So, do people in the East ENJOY grinding more than in the West?

Riobux (lostchances): I think most people in the Western world prefer PVE over PVP.

Tasha (tashadarke): I think localisation plays a point here, I don't think that its a secret that different areas of the world and cultures like different types of mmos

Dr. GonZo (javnm): almost ALL of the asain games are absed in the same enigne

cool1990 (hovo1990): that's one of the problems with f2p,because most of them are done in Asia

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Well my theory is usually that good games are very rare. Therefore where it comes for is up in the air - whoever has the best ideas (that work) wins. Survival of the fittest ladies and gentlemen!

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): Take for example, the first two MMOs.  Ultima Online and Lineage 1.

Predus (arturf): Dr. Gonzo

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): levelgrinding as the main point of a game is tiring

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): Riobux, that's true

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): It's interesting to see EVE corporations meeting in the same net cafe every day to play together in RL.

Riobux (lostchances): There are a few mean people who love belittiling people, but besides that, yeah.

btwbetchFU (garbanian): It seems to me that a lot of the "good" and "wanted" Asian MMO's are being denied to us. All the less than perfect mmo's are being sent over, while we wait for games like Dungeon and Fighter.

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): NEXT QUESTION: BloodyMess (colafran): What do Pay 2 Play games have that makes them worth the $15 a month?

 

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): but not everyone

cool1990 (hovo1990): but ROM it's totally different matter

Ðønut (alpha064): Nothing

Riobux (lostchances): Of course not everyone.

Predus (arturf): point for you. That's a problem. There are a lot of game on the same engine.

Ðønut (alpha064): absolutely nothing

SoLiD (epeyon7): They all get money for their effort thats why they do extra work.

Tasha (tashadarke): If you look at the purchase percentages by localisation of NCSoft's earnings you can see that clearly

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): few are worth it

Weasel (nweasel): Enough content to make it worth playing for more than a day or two.

Predus (arturf): Too many on one. Which difference are classes or world ==

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): well in most cases, there is extra content, sometimes there is an exp boost

Leeds© (leedsmauler): P2P games being worth the $15 a month. I think it's the feeling of being in such a large community (although the 50 friends limit on WoW is a major letdown, on RuneScape which is about $5 a month, ya get 200!)

SoLiD (epeyon7): More money equals better creations. It's all about money and profit.

Raymondo (dumbshit666): nothing

Raymondo (dumbshit666): nothing

Weasel (nweasel): If they don't, then why are you paying for it?

Riobux (lostchances): They usually have some form of dedication and sometimes a feel of "you get what you pay for".

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): and those that are are usually overpriced

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): IMO Asian games are geared more toward those huge Korean Guilds that you see in games like GW. It seems like they eat those games up

Zhang (zhange): more reliable Content and User support i'ed say

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): WoW is an example

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): or discount on buying things

Riobux (lostchances): Guild Wars enviroments just felt tacky to me.

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): But today, the RP and PVP concept of the two worlds are overlapping and merging.

cool1990 (hovo1990): iS IT POSSIBLE TO MAKE  50 million budget f2p game now,w/o the publisher having problems with that?

btwbetchFU (garbanian): A stronger company that stands behind their product more. A game with a p2p player base will have better support, patches and updates rather than a normal F2P game will. There are exceptions, few, but still exceptions.

Yanxa (yanxa): Why do the companies need this money just for you to add extra friends? Surely the software doesn't cost that much?!

Riobux (lostchances): While WoW enviroments felt vibrant and enjoyable.

Wuzimu (wuzimu8): i agree with btwbetch, all the localized asian games i have played have been terrible, theyve lagged, and have terrible translations.

Weasel (nweasel): The only reason to pay for anything is because you feel that you're getting enjoyment for your time used.

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): User Support, Evergrowing content AND END GAME.... iin most F2P games player needs to grind forever

Weasel (nweasel): Otherwise it wouldn't be worth your time, OR money.

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): if you have to buy the game in the store, online play should be free. the idea implied is that it's so good, it should be marketed

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): yes, many players expect more support from the company, though some seek it from other players

SoLiD (epeyon7): People do more effort when they know they will get moeny for their work then when they know they won't recieve anything. Thats why they award payers.

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): It's not all about launching expansions though, that's where some of the older games got it wrong.. Launching new expansions and spending money on added content isn't what everyone's loking for these days, we want a game with high replayability and a good user base.. which F2P breeds when given the right guidelines to follow

Weasel (nweasel): Community. Actually, I like that one.

Zhang (zhange): @cool: most likley becouse of Loss to Gain raitios

Weasel (nweasel): Because the game has a community you want to play with.

Predus (arturf): I just want good contact with company which makes that MMOrpg ;p

Riobux (lostchances): But what if Wolf, you want to buy it in the store, for some one else and it's P2P?

btwbetchFU (garbanian): @ i0nE, thats why I think Guild Wars did so well. It was one of the first b2p games. It made its success in the market, and it still shows today.

Zhang (zhange): Agreed btwbetchFU

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): I live in the Philippines, and the Capital Region is "Westernize" if you will.  MOst are into RP/PvE.  But when we go outside of the Capital region, most gamers are PVP-minded, just like our  neighboring Korea and Japan

cool1990 (hovo1990): isn't HUXley a high budget game or parabellum?

Yanxa (yanxa): Does anybody know how much it actually costs the companies to keep the games running - servers, etc?

Riobux (lostchances): What if you just want a disc copy of the game?

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): @Weasel, yes that is a big factor that drew me to Guild Wars and WoW

cool1990 (hovo1990): for f2p games?

Moneo (deathmoneo): i always have somesort of pressure with p2p games : you always have to think how much time is left until the month ends and such. then you might worry that you havent played the game enough

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): the community

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): yes, with a p2p the company can expand more quickly than with a f2p

Weasel (nweasel): @btw I bought it when it first came out, and, yes, I agree, I've stayed with it since.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): In response to the question: The 15 a month gives you free patches and the access to good servers. Although this may not be much servers can be quite expensive and having a 'lag free' environment is absolutely priceless these days. With the vast quantities of people playing games such as WoW it's amazing quality (lagwise). It also sifts out the people that shouldn't be on there. I believe that it'll sift out the 'assholes' that want to just sit there and hate on the game. They can do it if it's free but no one is willing to pay $15 just for that.

Weasel (nweasel): @Kody :) Same.

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): virtualsin, I disagree. The only real repeatable content in every game is PvP, what else?

Leeds© (leedsmauler): I find that the $15 on WoW is worth it. You can join a guild (no external forum complications) and do raids with them, and they keep resetting. WoW has the replayability factor

Linkedge (linkedge27): it isnt

Weasel (nweasel): @Marvin That's not to say that that wouldn't happen in a F2P game, but, it is a little harder, yes.

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): noo i dontthink wow is worth 15$

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): @Leeds: Isn't an MMO supposed to have the replayability factor?

Tasha (tashadarke): @Yanxa if you look at the investor reports of a publisher they're announced albeit not clear

Ðønut (alpha064): I find that with $15, I can buy something way better every month

[TTHS] Salvenius (sh4dowj): Good question as this is what I ask many of my friends that play WoW, yet they can never give me a straight answer..I have always gained the same things out of F2P than I have done in P2P, only difference i9s that P2P are around forever due to the payments keeping the games afloat. Whereas with F2P, without the right funding or backing, they slowly whiter into nothing

btwbetchFU (garbanian): All games have a replayability factor with different classes and such.

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): I think F2P gamers do spend money, I know I have used premiums when and where possible across the board in order to keep things interesting or to shortcut things here and there on the game. I know alot of users who pour money into F2P games, not because they have to but because they want to.,

Predus (arturf): WoW  is worth 15$

btwbetchFU (garbanian): Anything online will be replayable to an extent.

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): @btwbetch: good example. if the company wants to make money, why not only charge the monthly fee. the gamer will consistently play as long ans he/she likes the game

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): no eve is

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): YEs, F2P Gamers SPEND Money - MORE than P2P Gamers spend.

Riobux (lostchances): Eve was nasty.

Weasel (nweasel): P2P games are *SUPPOSED* to be able to give the developer a higher budget to use and make the game "better", correct?

Predus (arturf): sure it is. There are lot of people. Big guilds. It's really fun

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): how?

Cormierre (mdcormier): Don't forget, with World of Warcraft, most still purchase the two expansions as well.

cool1990 (hovo1990): in this tough times, f2p games are great alternative?

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): Maybe not 'more', but quite similar amounts

Riobux (lostchances): Correct Weasel, supposed to.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): hmm, an mmo should always be growing, not staying in a niche in my opinion, they should seek new ways to attract more people

Yanxa (yanxa): But surely charging 15$ isn't worth it - it should either be increased dramatically or reduced completely.

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): ya but eve comes out with patches quiet often to

Riobux (lostchances): No guarantees, but the rule mostly applies.

Tasha (tashadarke): Salvenius I disagree, P2P games aren't around forever, just need to take TR as an example there

Dr. GonZo (javnm): I play DnD w/ friends i go to school w/ me every friday, i have more fun RP ing w/ them then playing some of these MMOs, i enjoy the social aspect of games. i played city of heroes for 3 years because i found a community that worked for me. we had ventrilo ando ther things. we also mutli gmed together

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): i do think the $15 is worth it but i still would side with free mmorpgs more

Kieran/unpk | Lynx WA (lucifrez): The answer is, they don't. No matter how much content you put into P2P games, $15 a month for games is an extortionate amount. WoW itself as far as I am aware only became a big game because a lot of people played WC3, and from this they moved onto WoW. From this they made a lot of money and they became bigger, and bigger, with better and better content. Then everyone went, wait! people are making a lot of money out of this. So now other companies are making P2P games and all trying to become a new version of WoW.

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): Not always, alot of games lose their replayability after you grind through levels to an extent.. That depends on the game structure and what you can do atfer you've gained a few levels.. Also how quickly you can gain levels and what content is included in between.

Linkedge (linkedge27): me personsly dont want to pay to play an online game with my friends

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): same here

btwbetchFU (garbanian): But then, you have to look at games like Age of Conan, that have such a small amount of players now, just around 100k. Why do they still charge for the game? Maybe a cash shop wouldn't work in that game. Not all games can be played by f2p with cash shop standards.

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): wel get cod

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): You guys probably caught on to this one but the NEXT QUESTION: BloodyMess (colafran): We have seen Conan drop down to nothing, WAR struggle a bit to keep their subscriptions up & some titles like Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa completely close their doors. True EVE and LOTRO have found their niche audiences, but is there room for any more subscription titles?

 

Yanxa (yanxa): Likewise

Leeds© (leedsmauler): Cool, in these tough times, I think that budget subscription MMOs are gonna hit the mark. Ones like RuneScape. It's cheap and it has a LOT of playability factor, but unlike WoW, it doesn't have the replayability factor.

Riobux (lostchances): I think it also depends virtual, how often they update the game with new things.

Weasel (nweasel): I thought that too, "I'm not going to PAY to play a game", which is why I bought Guild Wars. But I TRIED other games, such as EVE, and I actually found that worth it.

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): More actually.  Here in again, ASEAN, F2P gamers last year started crying that local and regional companies to go back to P2P games, because "they realized" that they are paying more than a P2P game.

[TTHS] Salvenius (sh4dowj): @tasha: well not "forever", wron choice of word on my part I suppose...basically they are around longer than F2P due to their finical backing

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): Well Sci-FI genre is about to witness it's growth, because some serious titles are coming this way. But there's certainly no space for new fantasy games

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): Of course other companies are going to make F2P versions of WoW, that's competitive marketing. Want to beat Blizzard? Hit them where they can't fight it.

~MAJOR.Patterson~ (majorpatterson): Question: Depending on if your game is P2P or F2P how hard do you find it to maintain your servers for the growing poplulation you are getting these days

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): Cormierre, WoW is a bad example here - look at EVE for example. You download the trial (21 days!), then just buy gtc and you can keep playing it. More than that, it's possible to pay for gtc using in-game currency, so if you are good enough you can say it's F2P...

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): aside from my comp, id go get WoW if i didnt have to pay monthly

[TTHS] Salvenius (sh4dowj): financial*

Linkedge (linkedge27): Heck i play Urban Terror   alot

Ðønut (alpha064): If WoW was free, I'd totally play it, like Devongreene said

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): i wouldnt

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): oh ya more titles but gl  getn past eve

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): i used to play wow

united.Gen.Death_Angel (jsm142003): wolf how bad is your comp lol

Linkedge (linkedge27): its free and fun

Weasel (nweasel): @debate Dang, good question...

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): and after you quit

Riobux (lostchances): I think there is room, always, but you really have to find a way to pry away the current MMORPG players from their current game to move to the new one.

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): you realize how much money you wasted on a game

cool1990 (hovo1990): for example Crimecraft was stated to be f2p game,but now they're not sure,because of high budget?is it too dificult in the west,because it's not taht popular like in china?

Predus (arturf): from F2P games I think that some browser games are worth for playing it. F2P MMORPG are usually xx on the same engine withour the diffrence!

Tasha (tashadarke): @Salvenius: ok I'll agree there :)

btwbetchFU (garbanian): I think people expect a lot more from P2P games after the success and hype of WoW still. People will still hype it to death, and it is the first real put together p2p MMO.

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): that you should be able to get for free

Kieran/unpk | Lynx WA (lucifrez): Again, people will never be able to create another WoW, so there is no room for other MMORPGS, as WoW will just pump out another expansion and trample all over it.

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): I agree Donut, I'd play WoW if I had the option to play for free, and I'd likely put money into it, where I'm not now.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): we also need to think about how the economics will soon affect the mmo base

Moneo (deathmoneo): but i dont think wow would of been that good if it was a f2p mmo. think, they wouldnt get that much money

«ηØ» Ki11er (haloki11er): GW is better than WOW cuz...

1. It's free to play

2. Co-op is WAY better cuz doing shit with urself gets boring

3. There's actually a storyline instead of random quests

4. It's not so unrealistic as to have 1 person killing 70 enemies.

5. In GW u actually have to do shit in the game to get XP, where as in WoW u can just walk away and come back later (I buy a game to play it, not to watch my XP go up). It's more fun the GW way anyway.

6. Sorry if i offend u, but most people that play WoW are just such big fucking nerds

Riobux (lostchances): Which is usually very hard, because if they're already comfortable with their current game, then why move on?

Leeds© (leedsmauler): If WoW was free, my parents wouldn't be refusing to let me play the game now my trial has expired. Yet they let me pay £3.20 a month for RS subscription.

Weasel (nweasel): @deabte I want to say that, yes, there is room, but, it's true, the market has been rough lately... but is it because too many games try to go the route of "WoW killer"?

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): It is like this: In F2P Microtransaction online games.  There are items that magnet the players to buy and buy and buy - eg XP Boosters; Money boosters; super powered item that will Expire in 3 hours, so they have to buy and buy again and again.

Cormierre (mdcormier): Спэцте: I was referring to someone who said "WoW is worth $15 a month"

cool1990 (hovo1990): what game is GW?

Weasel (nweasel): @Ki11er We aren't talking which game is best.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): I think F2P is gaining the upper hand because they're free to try. Anyone that is addicted to an MMO probably has a friend that plays WoW that got them addicted to that at least for some period. There's always room for more games but the question now is whether it's the right time. New genres of games always evolve. If someone can make it new and interesting then yes, it will become popular. Right now I just think WoW has too much of the market.

Weasel (nweasel): Guild wars

Yanxa (yanxa): God of War?

Cormierre (mdcormier): GW stands for Guild Wars

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): @Leeds I agree that lower budget games will attract players these days, but that brings about another question: because of the increase of players in such games will they ever get "better"? And if they do would they raise their prices?

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): First to start with, GW IS NOT AN MMO!

btwbetchFU (garbanian): @Moneo, Look at Ragnarok. They made a nerfed F2P server along with their P2P server, with increased stuff.

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): Eventually, they are spending more with buying items than paying for a P2P game.

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): There's always room for another MMO to beat WoW, all giants fall eventually, and EA, Square Enix and other top devs are working towards it I think.

«ηØ» Ki11er (haloki11er): guild wars

Weasel (nweasel): CORPG

StalkingKoeLoveWaffle[FS] (koelovewaffle): i dont likethe monthly payments as well

Moneo (deathmoneo): Hmh

Ðønut (alpha064): I think if more MMOs were made free, the community would be larger than what it is now, since many gamers don't want to spend $15 a month

SoLiD (epeyon7): But if WoW turned free, they get extra costs on f2p user taht use their bandwich. They earn enough now. Though some players will pay after a whiel if WoW would then come up with better things for p2p.

Weasel (nweasel): Guild Wars = CORPG

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): even devs said that GW is coRPG, not MMORPG!

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): lol WoW was a trainng wheels game to eve

Weasel (nweasel): ?

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): NEXT QUESTION: BloodyMess (colafran): With WoW being the market leader in Pay 2 Play MMOs, with no intention of budging from the top, are companies changing their strategies when it comes to monetizing their games?

 

Leeds© (leedsmauler): JaGEx (makers of runescape) would not raise their prices. They want to make the game the affordable enjoyable game it is.

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): What is coRPG

Moneo (deathmoneo): who knows, maybe wow will become f2p one day? :)

cool1990 (hovo1990): thanks,i wouldn't say it's an f2p because,you have to pay for a serial,right?

Zhang (zhange): @Kieran response, I respctfully disgree with you just a bit, I agree that WoW did achieve a major fanbase at first due to the brand name. However when I first started played around 4 years ago I had No Idea what Warcraft was, but I still played due to the content and bought WC3 becouse of story.

Riobux (lostchances): I wonder if they will release a WoW 2 or will keep slapping expansions...

Leeds© (leedsmauler): They raised it by 30p, because of inflation

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): coopertive online role play game_

Yanxa (yanxa): Surely they would gain a bigger fanbase if they increased the initial cost of the game (from £30 up to £50) and removed the monthly pay

Linkedge (linkedge27): i spend more money on my xbox 360    i dont have money to spend on my computer

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): i am personally a weekend warrior and i agree, i would rather have a f2p mmo, bc i dont have as much time to dedicate to a game, but some others may have more time than i

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): @gameshogun: if the f2p game is good, the player wouldn't need those items. also, the developers are allowed to advertise in their own game

Predus (arturf): cooperatice rpg?

Weasel (nweasel): @debate No, because most games are still making it $15/month.

Predus (arturf): i think you know that :P

Tasha (tashadarke): Unfortunately I think a lot of the new P2P MMOs get their releases wrong and that dooms them from the start.  AoC had a very bad release, and its very hard to get over that inital bad PR.  After that its hard to get the subscription numbers up to maintain the games

SoLiD (epeyon7): Going f2p to p2p has all to do with teh extra ability's, i don't think you owuld pay $15 aa month just because u like the creators.

btwbetchFU (garbanian): No. Games are just trying to do what WoW did, in a new form. No game can recreate something thats been made already, something well made that is.

Kieran/unpk | Lynx WA (lucifrez): @Zhang, Thats why I said most. :)

Yanxa (yanxa): people would be more open to playing, thereby getting more people to play, earning money from happy gamers

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): i played many f2p ones with those adds, didn't bother me at all

Weasel (nweasel): I wonder, though, if making it cheaper ($10/month?), if that would attract more players instead.

cool1990 (hovo1990): i'd say GW is a hybrid

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): True, but the games were developed with "Item buying" in mind.

Weasel (nweasel): @cool It is, yes.

Riobux (lostchances): I think it'd be interesting, a WoW where you can win real items.

Riobux (lostchances): *a MMORPG.

Weasel (nweasel): @Riobux Yes, but, that raises costs even more.

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): a WoW...

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Yes. I think the free to play game style has really become more popular. You see games like Hellgate completely dying, games like Conan and WAR failing to launch just because of WoW. Sure WoW will sink eventually but it's just way too dominant right now so F2P is the way to go. If you make items worth paying for (or at least create that illusion) it's a safer way of making money than to launch a P2P game.

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): They "intentionally" removed particular items.  As well as intentionally added very helpful items like boosters.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): im sure companies are changing, as i said earlier, all mmo's need to change to attract more ppl

Moneo (deathmoneo): hehe i noticed that too Спэцтер

Riobux (lostchances): Haha, it was a typo specter.

Leeds© (leedsmauler): @btwbetchFU: Yet RuneScape took it from a completely different angle, and they see to do very well. Are you trying to say RS copied WoW? Because I disagree

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): I don't think the game that beats WoW will be repeating it, the market is about making something better, which eventually has to happen.. But his debate isn't about WoW, this is one of the problems with the MMO industry right now. Everything becomes about WoW.

btwbetchFU (garbanian): @Weasel, will it actually work though. the company is used to the 15 a month from X amount of players. They have that to work with and always have, so that "cut" from their pay means less quality updates and such.

Predus (arturf): @Weasel you're right mmorpgs for ~10-12$/month would be more attractice and more peopel would play it

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): indeed they were, but how many p2p have f2p worlds that only advertise donation items

Weasel (nweasel): @laibcoms I hate that, which is why I can't play those games.

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): most people avoid games like that

Predus (arturf): @lone which games?

Yanxa (yanxa): I don't mean to be rude, but is it possible to not focus this debate so heavily on WoW and GW? The debate appears to be shaping around this.

Linkedge (linkedge27): Runescape was a good game that was free

Riobux (lostchances): Granted, it would increase the costs, but I'm sure people would more likely go to that one. It'll be like gambling, with MMORPGs.

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): I think F2P will win out just because it's not WoW and people are tire dof arguing about WoW.

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): yep, same. ;)  but you'll be amazed how many are really spending for F2P Microtransaction MMOs

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): @ Marvin: Yeah, these games are all about a community, of which WoW has the largest and therefore (often) the most attractive

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): i agree with Yanxa

Linkedge (linkedge27): good point

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): wow 15$ for  WoW u can get eve for 10 and hav way more to do and its much more enjoyable

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): without a community Marvin, games like Hellgat are just nota s fun

Moneo (deathmoneo): I really hate the part in some f2p mmos that you have some items which are temporary - even for payed ones.

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): well, for a MMO

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Well it's about F2P vs P2P and those are the two dominant ones that everyone knows

Weasel (nweasel): @btw I agree, but, how much of a difference does it REALLY make, I wonder. @Predus As I would figure, but, which game would be brave enough to do if first, or a new one entering the market?

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): yes i hear many ppl judging by a $15 dollar price point

btwbetchFU (garbanian): @Leeds. I never said that all games copy each other. Some games do stand out. Some have different features, look at Sword of the new world. New concept? F2P as well.

Moneo (deathmoneo): It drives me nuts!

Kieran/unpk | Lynx WA (lucifrez): WoW has become too much of a giant already, it has planted its base, and it will not fall unfortunatly.

Cormierre (mdcormier): btwbetchFU: I disagree. Runes of Magic, a somewhat more recent MMORPG originating in Korrea, is unmistakably modelled after World of Warcraft, apart from a different class system and a Cash-shop payment method.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): they're good examples for proving points

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): the biggest problem for an MMO is getting those first players

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): here in our region alone.. there are more F2P-Microtransaction gamers than P2P gamers.

SoLiD (epeyon7): Runescape had everything except teh alck of graphics, though if u rly enjoy the game then after a whiel u won't even bother on teh graphics.

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): well, for any online game, actually

cool1990 (hovo1990): For now,as WOW monopolying the mmo,it wouldn't be wise to launch as a f2p game,with ads,microtransactions,and premium stuff?just what happend to tabula rasa

Ðønut (alpha064): I think that MMOs should be more like Eve, use ingame money to pay for monthly fees, instead of forcing the gamer to spend real money

Riobux (lostchances): I disagree Chunky, Eve was painful.

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): games that do nothing but make adds for membership or "exclusive items" are usually short, or just poorly built, from my expierience

Riobux (lostchances): I can't stress how painful it was to play it.

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): noo..

btwbetchFU (garbanian): @Weasel. Lets say you have 15 x 1million subs. now 10x 1mil subscribers. Thats a substantial loss.

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): NEXT QUESTION: BloodyMess (colafran): Are the people that don’t pay in F2P games worth having in the community?

 

[TTHS] Salvenius (sh4dowj): I personally believe "subscriptions" are killing the MMO genre, except for WoW for some strange reason. Not everyone is willing to part with their money so easily these days and the fact that games are being thrown out left, right and centre, people who are new to MMO's merely want to "try" the game before "marrying" it...they will play for awhile and then forget after awhile, since subscriptions are monthly, the money is taken out and it doesn't stop until you stop it. I know I did this with WoW and they got an extra monath's payment out of me even though I stopped playing during the free month

Weasel (nweasel): Let's step back and look at how much money Blizzard ACTUALLY makes, compared to their spending.

Riobux (lostchances): It really was.

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): y would u say that

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): But this isn't an argument of which game is better.

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): cool: premium stuff unblances the game

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): eve rocked

Weasel (nweasel): @btw Good point, but I bring up my above point as well.

SoLiD (epeyon7): Weasel they make laot because they offer alot.!!!

Predus (arturf): No

Riobux (lostchances): The learning scale was like running into a brick wall.

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): And I think that subscriptions are future, not only for MMO games but for everything.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): How do you run into a brick wall?

Weasel (nweasel): @SoLiD I know, but, how much profit do they bring in, and could they afford to make a little less to attract more players?

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): That would be the only way to stop piracy

SoLiD (epeyon7): If i were about to earn as much as blizzard, i wouldn't mind spending some to make even more.

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): well yes but if u get upgrades/implanants it really dont take that long

Riobux (lostchances): Not quite spector.

Leeds© (leedsmauler): Yea, I mean people were buying gold on RS, which was why JaGEx took drastic action to remove it. It does unbalance the game.

Moneo (deathmoneo): well, i dont know, Spekter.

Predus (arturf): F2P has usually not nice community. There are no-lifes which are buying items. and other small groups

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): well with the economy like it is i believe p2p will begin to decline, or just mmo's in general

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): Depends of what game you're talking about. If Sro yes, if Dungeon Runners  no way!

[TTHS] Salvenius (sh4dowj): They are as much of the community as anyone else is. A community is a collection of people that chat and help each other out while playing with or against one another

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): MMOs with ads aren't so big a deal, I think. I meant TR has Dell computers in it, but how does that ruin gameplay? AO has in-game ads but they fit the game's rp related content.

Riobux (lostchances): I don't see it being for every game but I'm sure every game will start releasing expansion packs often.

Weasel (nweasel): @Leeds Yeah, but, most games have a really strict ban process with that.

btwbetchFU (garbanian): they are 100% useful in the community. People dont "need" to pay in a game to have a good time, or be useful. Granted, not all MMO's have cash shops that are fair to all players. Some people can become overly wealthy or overly powerful using the cash shop, while some games just have stuff for "extra" leveling, extra inventory, clothes, ect.

Yanxa (yanxa): #Weasel - Are they successful though?

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): f2p is vital to a mmo

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): I remember hearing from someone that the only way to stop private servers is going F2P (and Microtransactions) ;)

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): I think finding a matury community (or guild) to hang out with and do quests with is considerably easier in a P2P than an F2P game

Leeds© (leedsmauler): @Weasel: Blizzard Entertainment don't do that. They allow RWT

Tasha (tashadarke): I agree pain, if the ads are handled well its not a problem and in some case enhances the games

Predus (arturf): @Marvin of course it is

Riobux (lostchances): Haha, mature people on MMORPGs.

Riobux (lostchances): Good one Marvin.

cool1990 (hovo1990): if it's not a big deal,why we see petroglyph,turbine,id,ea releasing games with f2p model?

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): They do exist...in the abyss.

Predus (arturf): @Marvin in F2P games there are small groups which don't want other ppl

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): But if they made it cheaper it might in effect cause players to leave. Let me explain: Blizzard makes WoW $10 instead of $15, which allows little Billy 8-year-old to pay for it with his allowance. So he gets on and immediately starts being a "noob". So more mature players get turned off because everwhere they go theres 20% more 8 year olds ruining the game, so they quit, and WoW loses fanbase. I think this is one reason why RS has 10 million players and WoW has 80 million; RS is a decent game, but a majority of the 10 million who play are younger kids who play it because it's cheap, while the more mature players who are sick of the community in RS move on to WoW for a more mature environment.

Kieran/unpk | Lynx WA (lucifrez): For that question, it depends on whatever the game is. If it is PvP based then free members can be a nuisence, but in a PvE based game, it is fine to have free players.

Weasel (nweasel): @Yanxa That's a good point. They try, but, I'll admit, I made an alt to test it in Guild Wars, and I got away with it (easily).

Dr. GonZo (javnm): some communties ruin the game experince

SoLiD (epeyon7): Blizzards has a budget like no otehr mmorpg has. They keep updating and keep gaining and gaining money. They palyed it smart and don't give up their gamers for aslong as they pay.

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): would players just get up and subscribe to a game without knowing anything about it?

Weasel (nweasel): @Leeds On gold? Or just items?

[TTHS] Salvenius (sh4dowj): I disagree with you Marvin. I have found many mature "groups" and "communities" within the F2P games I play

Dr. GonZo (javnm): like a guild devoted to ruing team based quest or instances

Riobux (lostchances): It's like looking for a Christian in Iraq.

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): Pheonix hit it on the mark. Economic beakdown means alot right now. I disagree about the guild thing though, I've known alot of f2p guilds that turned out great, I think it's an equal playing field on the guild concept.

Moneo (deathmoneo): *giggle*

Linkedge (linkedge27): if you make a game that is free,  more people will play it and have fun.   that  will make the game look good in the eyes of the gamers

Kieran/unpk | Lynx WA (lucifrez): Very easy?

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): You want mature communities? Check MxO.

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): or at least EVE

Ðønut (alpha064): The only time I would probably sign up for an MMO without hearing about it is if tons of my friends are playing it

Yanxa (yanxa): MxO?

btwbetchFU (garbanian): Mature communites? Sword of the New World has them as well.

Zhang (zhange): In answere to the Questthat that Colafran asked, I would say yes and no, its debatable I think as to wither or not F2P games are coming out of the woodwork due to money or becouse Gaming Classes are being offered at colleges now or whatnot. However I do defienatly think that there is at least some kind of market change due to hype in P2P MMO's in general. Aria a F2P game company does indeed show commercial for there games, which in pretty cool I think that they can do that =)

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): NEXT QUESTION: BloodyMess (colafran): Most of the players that play F2P games never pay for anything, but the 10% that do pay more per month than people who play WoW, why do you think these players choose the F2P model?

 

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): The Matrix Online (yes! it's still alive!)

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): I'm not saying they dont' exist. I'm saying they're harder to locate. I've found them in all the games I play but you see a lot more immaturity or just all out stupidity in an F2P than a P2P game

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): Matrix Online = MXO ???

Cormierre (mdcormier): Salvenius: Your point about monthly subscriptions is valid, but how many other options are there for MMORPG developers, really?

They need to pay developers such as programmers, to keep the game updates, as well as all of the other occupations upholding the game.

 

And let's not forget; If there are monthly subscriptions, the need for a cashshop is decreased greatly, eliminating the overpowered (and expensive) gear and items that only people with an over-abundance of money will have.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): i agree with fred, it wouldnt be the same without both audiences, f2p members and p2p members

cool1990 (hovo1990): blizzard said that wow cost total of 200 million budget,but they get annualy 1 billion,in my opinion it's a huge monopoly

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): yup gameshogun

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): wow, it's still kicking? it's been years since I last heard about MxO

Weasel (nweasel): @debate Great question. NO IDEA.

Weasel (nweasel): Haha.

Yanxa (yanxa): #1spectre1 - Really? How old is that now?

Predus (arturf): people who spend more money on F2P are usually odd people which only want to be THE BEST on server

Leeds© (leedsmauler): @Cody: I agree, I have to deal with a lot of "noobish" people on RS. But I prefer it. Even though I am trying to swap to World of Warcraft. I want the more mature community, I want to play with my school mates.

SoLiD (epeyon7): Because they simple wanna check out the game first or can't affod it, or don't have a credit-card to pay for it.

Riobux (lostchances): I think it's just a feeling of comfort. They know what they're into and they know how to use it.

btwbetchFU (garbanian): F2P lets you CHOOSE when you want to pay. You don't have to pay on a schedule to play the game. Play it, need something extra, buy it. You dont have to pay so much per month, only when its 100% needed.

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): Ah I strongly disagree @Predus :p

Tasha (tashadarke): @debate: drawn in by the business model, hooked by a community, driven to spend money by ego and epeen

Linkedge (linkedge27): MXO  is an older RPG

Predus (arturf): that's problem with F2P. If you don't pay you don't have chance to be one of the best players

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): Everyone says so, but yes, it is alive and lots of people still play it (well, 'lots' = 50 players online maybe?)

Moneo (deathmoneo): btwbetchFU - damn straight

Leeds© (leedsmauler): @btwbetch: but then that nerfs the F2P status of the game

Weasel (nweasel): @btw But if they spend more, why would the, for content that isn't necessarily needed...?

SoLiD (epeyon7): I have never ever payed for a mmorpg before i checkedi t out in f2p mode first.

Predus (arturf): @gameshogun why? :P

SoLiD (epeyon7): I need to know that when i pay, it's for a reason.

[TTHS] Salvenius (sh4dowj): @Corm: Donations, Micro-transactions, advertisements on sites around the internet...I don't see why P2P games/developers can't do the same as F2P games/developers

Ðønut (alpha064): I never buy games where on the box it says "First month free, payment for other months required for play"

Leeds© (leedsmauler): @SoliD: So did I, I've played the WoW trial, and played 2 years of RS as f2p, then have been a member for 3 years.

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): @Predus I invite you to come here in the Philippines or Malaysia or Singapore or Thailand or VietNam, you will see first-hand that the age-range of people who spend money for an F2P game are of the ages 13 to 21

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): Well i think F2P games have more cassual players, that don't need some cool stuff which they could find in p2p. They just sit once a three days, and run around for furn, not for a grind

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): :)

Moneo (deathmoneo): but.. uhm.... face it - you can make amazing machinimas with WoW.

Moneo (deathmoneo): *cough*

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): Well, Requiem's got a perfect platform right now as far as the f2p system goes, I think. The "froobs" are able to particpate in 100% of the game content, minus bonus items such as costumes which are not needed, and the froobs can't talk over Region chat, only local, whispers and party. This gives a full game with a reason to pay in, without ruining it if you don't pay in.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): I think that money is money. If you get addicted to an F2P game (which is entirely possible) then you can choose to pay. Usually this is for extra items or just something that will give you a boost in experience. If you choose to spend your money on something it's all good. It keeps it free for the rest of us and the option to purchase is there so the game doesn't die.

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): @btw but then when devs realize "hey, people are actually spending money on my game!" They start making more and more require payment, and soon you can't get past level 10 without paying money

btwbetchFU (garbanian): Some stuff, people want more than need. If they wish to pay for clothes, to look different (most MMO characters have a lot of the same clothes, look alike a lot), they should be able to buy that for a dollar or two, rather than 15.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): well as the ceo of jagex said, he believes that the f2p and p2p games are both seperate and divided games, 2 different games

Cormierre (mdcormier): I believe they choose Free2Play for several reasons.

 

For one, they have the option to goldfarm (and similar activities) without as easily being caught up in legal issues.

Another possible reason is that rather than paying monthly for the game, they can use the money to have an unfair advantage with cashshop items over the 90% that don't pay.

cool1990 (hovo1990): i think most players are from 13-24

Ðønut (alpha064): Not many make machinimas for MMOs

Weasel (nweasel): ...whew.

Predus (arturf): @gameshogun Ok my fault.. I thought about Europe and my experience ;)

Riobux (lostchances): But Gameshogun, your area of the world isn't the whole world.

Ðønut (alpha064): they're mainly for FPSs

SoLiD (epeyon7): I played Knight Onlien for a month f2p, then turned p2p for 2 years.

[TTHS] Salvenius (sh4dowj): @Moneo: You can with Garry's Mod 9 which is free to play

~MAJOR.Patterson~ (majorpatterson): For GW you never have to pay a dime more after you buy the game and you get the full exp, but for a game like ROSE there is an unfair adv of where u can buy things to get ahead within the game

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): How long is this debate open?

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): 26 more minutes

Ðønut (alpha064): yea, but the good hardware for Machinimas are on Gmod 10

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): okay

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): yes it isn't, but aren't we talking about F2P vs P2P ;)

Moneo (deathmoneo): Salvenius (sh4dowj) since when garrys mod is an mmo?

Riobux (lostchances): Any prizes for this debate

Weasel (nweasel): @MAJOR I hate that. That's why I won't play a game like htat.

Riobux (lostchances): ?

btwbetchFU (garbanian): @Kody. The devs might say that, then the company will see how they are losing people, like in Age of Conan, they don't realize that maybe they are asking too much for a subscription.

Yanxa (yanxa): #Salvenius - Does Garry's mod class as a game though?

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): NEXT QUESTION: BloodyMess (colafran): What are your thoughts about the big publishers like EA entering into the F2P world with big titles like Battlefield Heroes? Are we seeing a big change in the industry think here?

 

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): gMod is not a mmo, Salvenius

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): f2p can be harder too, you dont have the advantages of paying players. also, paying when you rarely play is nothing more than wasting your cash

~MAJOR.Patterson~ (majorpatterson): yeah

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): don't mix up online games and MMO's

cool1990 (hovo1990): EA launchin NFS online,really looking forward it

Ðønut (alpha064): If Age of Conan was made free, it would probably pick up again

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): that's true

btwbetchFU (garbanian): @Kody, they dont see that their greed will end up making them close for good.

Moneo (deathmoneo): oh god screw you ea

Crash. snake.kL (crashchris): BF Heroes is not a MMO right..?

Weasel (nweasel): But is Battlefield Heroes SUCCESSFUL?

Ðønut (alpha064): same with Tabula Rasa if the fee was taken off

Predus (arturf): Battlefield Heroes? I haven't heard about it

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): ugh, EA... they milk their EVERY game

cool1990 (hovo1990): wich by the way is f2p,ah and BH heroes

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): BF heroes is not an mmo

Riobux (lostchances): I think most people would Donut, then again they'd have to fix the glitches I've heard.

[Xfire] on3nightstan (l3sstalkmor3rock): be constructive ppl :)

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): (no offense if any of the guests is from EA)

[TTHS] Salvenius (sh4dowj): @Moneo: Since when was this debate just about MMO's? It is free to play against pay to play is it not ;)

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): since when BH is a mmo?

Leeds© (leedsmauler): EA launching an f2p game? I'll give it a try. I like the sound of it, if it's better than RuneScape and WoW, I might be able to save myself £3.20 a month!

.Doc Archy (docarchy): Battlefield Heroes rocks. a very fun F2P game

Ðønut (alpha064): but its an mmofps

~MAJOR.Patterson~ (majorpatterson): Anyone feal that TR should have lasted more then it did?

btwbetchFU (garbanian): @Donut Tabula Rasa was free for a while, and it was alive and kickin then, but, it did end up closing still.

Ðønut (alpha064): or whatever

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): Salvenius: Hm, you make a point...

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): hmm.. they have more funding for sure, but they lack the experience that the other mmo companies have

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): Patterson, I do

Weasel (nweasel): @Donut That's what I thought...

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): I think the big industries have a hell of a lot better chance of making it than other games. They can keep them alive longer with funding of other projects and have time to fix their mistakes if it isn't working out. Independent companies don't have the same opportunity as bigger companies do.

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): Yep, it should have.

Zhang (zhange): @Cormierre: I think it depends on how you define "goldfarm", if you mean actually selling items ofr Real World Currency, than I think your right for the most part

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): I really enjoyed it...

Riobux (lostchances): I tried playing Battlefield Heroes, it never worked.

Moneo (deathmoneo): Salvenius (sh4dowj) i thought this was about mmos which are f2p and p2p?

Weasel (nweasel): Which is why I got :/ there.

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): F2P includes completely free games, perhaps we should discuss those too

[TTHS] Salvenius (sh4dowj): BFH will be successful, I've spent 400 hours almost within 3 months of the beta

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): I bought CE of TR :(

Riobux (lostchances): Stupid beta...

Wuzimu (wuzimu8): ye, BF: Heroes is a fun game(well the beta nyways) im looking foreward to its launch

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): like Sauerbraten, Nexuiz, Quake 3

Ðønut (alpha064): I'm saying if they made failing games free earlier, they would've picked up for a while and got enough momentum to keep rolling

cool1990 (hovo1990): but isn't the debate about f2p vs. p2p?

Ðønut (alpha064): but games like Tabula Rasa, Hellgate, and Auto Assault just flat out failed

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): sounds like a good game from what i've heard. i'd give battlefield heroes a try. it's nice thats it's gonna be f2p

Predus (arturf): @cool it is

Weasel (nweasel): Then is F.E.A.R. Combat a F2P MMO? :/

Riobux (lostchances): Maybe Donut, but then it'd be hard to gain the money back.

Moneo (deathmoneo): xDD

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): BFH looks like a TF2 ripoff (sorry if I'm completely off, I've never played firsthand)

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): I love that EA and Square Enix and others that are well known name brands are entering F2P, I think it will further the movement and make the big titles improve one way or the other. If you want o keep up you have to find a way to make things better. So if a big title doesn't want o go F2P, it will have to add something incredible to stay in the race. We need the competition in order to raise the bar.

Cormierre (mdcormier): I think so. Battlefield Heroes is the perfect example of an RPG / FPS hybrid, incorporating both skill and knowledge.

 

Also, with big companies like EA, there are more educated and effective developers working at the titles, rather than the usual massive batch of Korreans using the RO engine and cashshop combo.

SoLiD (epeyon7): f2p vs p2p doesn't sticks to mmorpg

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): And what about The Fury, does anyone still remember it?

~MAJOR.Patterson~ (majorpatterson): lol

SoLiD (epeyon7): Allso fps are f2p lately.

Predus (arturf): rpg and fps hybrid - Gunz? :P

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): Sorry mate

Weasel (nweasel): Good point, but, there really was only one "successful" MMOFPS.

Leeds© (leedsmauler): I don't remember The Fury, never heard of it.

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): hehe GunZ

[TTHS] Salvenius (sh4dowj): Only because of the cartoon style Kody...BFH is nothing like TF2, trust me ;)

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): Predus: and Planetside

Yanxa (yanxa): #Weasel - Which was..

Weasel (nweasel): That I know of anyways...

btwbetchFU (garbanian): It is a hard decision for a company to go from p2p to f2p. They have a lot of people that they may have to cut. Jobs will go down the drain. They will also get bad publicity for it, the fact that they cant meet the demands of other players.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Does anyone else agree that the name "F2P" is a marketing scheme in itself?

Zhang (zhange): Gunz was indeed a hybrid =)

Moneo (deathmoneo): GunZ is amazing, but not an mmo tbh

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): Predus: And Deus Ex, I believe

cool1990 (hovo1990): mmo and mmorpg not the same thing right?

Weasel (nweasel): @Yanxa Tabula Rasa, and, this is why I say "successful".

Moneo (deathmoneo): wait uh

Riobux (lostchances): Comierre, there's a dangerous problem of just running anything into the floor.

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): haven't gotten far (kept crashing)

SoLiD (epeyon7): no it ain't

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): NEXT QUESTION: BloodyMess (colafran): Right now F2P games skew a bit younger with the demographic. Why do you think this is? Do you think that as time goes on the users play F2P now will continue playing F2P as they get older, or will they migrate to Pay 2 Play games?

 

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): GunZ was good until the company ruined it

Predus (arturf): but i'm talking about MMO :P

Leeds© (leedsmauler): No Cool, MMO is Massive Multiplayer Online, MMORPG is MMO Role Playing Game

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): Okay, there is one question I'd really like to ask. What do you think about all sorts of private servers for games like L2 or WoW?

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): f2p attracts more players, and creates a base for the company. long time players, once they trust the company, can be "graduated" into the p2p titles.

Moneo (deathmoneo): which company?

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): Gunz was....unique, amazingly fun for some players, a pointless waste of time for others

Predus (arturf): @DarkMan true

Cormierre (mdcormier): Weasel: That doesn't mark the future's possibilities.

Not many people have ATTEMPTED such a feat as a hybrid like this.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): yes, when seeing everything that is available, people get more eager to buy the interesting things they see

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): ijji or whatever they are, Moneo

Predus (arturf): yep

Zhang (zhange): @-{Marvin}: a little ;)

Weasel (nweasel): @Cormierre Very good point!

SoLiD (epeyon7): Budget, budget,budget   When you have the money, you can afford betetr graphics.

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): like, loading from browsers and such... but back to the topic!

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): lol

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): Ok let's come a comparison. Internet in 1990 was a only for a rich people. Look now. It's everywhere.

Moneo (deathmoneo): oh well they kinda took it from Matel ( or hows its called) but you still can play the original one

cool1990 (hovo1990): even David Perry stalks about f2p all the time

Leeds© (leedsmauler): Private servers annoy me no end! I don't see the point in them. Play on the official server, meet great people, that's my philosophy

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): yeah

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): yes, some younger gamers, cannot spend as much money as older gamers

Predus (arturf): That's a problem

Yanxa (yanxa): As long as private servers don't have passwords, it's all good, surely?

~MAJOR.Patterson~ (majorpatterson): The one thing i do enjoy about a p2p game (eve) is the ppl you play with have a lot more brain power ie not playing with 8yr olds

Weasel (nweasel): @debate Possibly, yes, but, many "kids" only play F2P games just to spend some time doing something else, you know? Only if they like video games enough will they continue on further up the totem pole when they get older.

Cormierre (mdcormier): Users cannot be predicted in such a way.

The payment method (or lack therein) will be decided by their income, which game they like, and the scale of their currency to it's effectiveness in the game (or length of subscription)

btwbetchFU (garbanian): It depends on what the p2p is in the future. It could change a lot, and with the economy, games will be less and less. the game with the p2p player base would be more likely to survive, with their money they should have stored for some times like this.

 

F2P Lasts a tad bit less in the gamer market. A lot of f2p games dont add anything different.

 

P2P usually has a lot more depth to it. More things to do.

Riobux (lostchances): I think it's because younger users can play F2P. Then when they're older, they can buy the P2P version but then again, I doubt it works much since there's just about the same range on P2P as F2P.

Predus (arturf): I have a lot of firends who play on private because of money

Moneo (deathmoneo): Yanxa (yanxa): they still claim its "illegal"

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): Leeds: Devs deserve the cash*

*exceptions apply, like those with stupid DRM

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): I think it's a lot more dependent on game type rather than whether it's F2P or P2P. If it's a 'childish' game such as Maple Story people will grow out of it. Certain game types are aimed at certain audiences. WoW seems to be aimed at everyone and is therefore quite successful in that aspect. Whether you pay to play it is only inherent of its quality

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): us of the 80s generation gamers know how to move money around so we can still play even without touching the money :P

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): @Leeds the point of priate servers are often to modify / enchance game experience. Though the consequences are often that it ruins game mechanics - that isn't the issue we're discussing though

Wuzimu (wuzimu8): @debate, alot of young people dont have acces to a card and money, that was the main reason why when i was younger i couldnt play games like eve and wow and stuck to Runescape, which is probably also why that is so populer

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): I think as F2P picks up the age group wil settle, I'm not sure where the stats are brought in on this, though. Fact is most of m friends in f2p games are older than me (28) and often into their 50s. That being the case, if the statistics are right, then I'm sure more and more will come as the f2p concept grows bigger.

Kieran/unpk | Lynx WA (lucifrez): People move over to P2P games because they do see them as more mature, they see that when  you can pay money on something, it is seen as being a better game and will have more mature players. For example a lot of people are driven away from RS because of the amount of very very young players, no matter how great a game it actually is.

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): @pheonix: i know once im out of clooege and about 26 i wouldn't spend money on a game. some mmo's dont have the content to make people spend the cash

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): @Patterson I agree, one reason why many people find RuneScape to be a turnoff

cool1990 (hovo1990): At GDC said that in that wester developers,have to make great f2p games,or the asian developers simply gonna take the lead

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): MMO addicts like me will surely move to P2P titles.

Yanxa (yanxa): #Moneo - really? How is it illegal?

Predus (arturf): They prefer to play private P2P beacuse on F2P they have problem with ppl who spend money for it (it's Europe)

Weasel (nweasel): @Wuzimu Good point, but does that mean they'll upgrade to a P2P later on?

[TTHS] Salvenius (sh4dowj): @Debate: certainly not...All ages play F2P games and most young ones continue to do so. This is because of the support given by the developers of the game, Blizzard may support WoW but I have always been able to connect on a more personal level with F2P developers than I have been able to with P2P ones

Riobux (lostchances): I think graphics, as much as I hate to say this, is a HUGE turn off of Runescape.

Cormierre (mdcormier): Dreamnuker: Any particular reason?

Riobux (lostchances): I think graphics do play a major role.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): yes, it is important for f2p to grab people at younger ages, as rs does, then when they get older they can expand to p2p games

Ðønut (alpha064): Graphics are small role imo

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): not as much in certain games

Leeds© (leedsmauler): @Kieren: The P2P base of RuneScape is more mature, but not by much. I speak from experience here.

Predus (arturf): yes Graphich are BIF role

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): but i do have to say

Ðønut (alpha064): gameplay and the community are the main factors

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): Riobux: They play a major role in marketing, but not the actual quality of the game

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): because of new features

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): :)

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): they did for me in runescape

Cormierre (mdcormier): Riobux: Take into account that they've been getting progressively better, and Jagex had to build their own libraries for Runescapes graphics.

Dr. GonZo (javnm): i prefer story compared to graphics but graphics are a plus

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): NEXT QUESTION: BloodyMess (colafran): Which model is better suited to last the test of time in gaming trends?

 

Predus (arturf): peopel are saying that's not but it is

btwbetchFU (garbanian): Its a personal choice, to go to p2p or not. If people have fun with the F2P games they play, why change? People just want to have fun, whether or not they pay, or not.

SoLiD (epeyon7): Because some kids are iimmature on f2p, tehy ahev to make everything p2p, so more mature peopel will pay and play ?

Ðønut (alpha064): F2P

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): which u can't find in any F2p

Ðønut (alpha064): it attracts more players

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): I agree, Community

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): Riobux: yes, no matter how much people claim to  only rate games based on gameplay, graphics play a HUGE role

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): lol ye

Ðønut (alpha064): than a P2P where its like "pay $15 and play for 30 days"

Kieran/unpk | Lynx WA (lucifrez): Neither will. They will both crash as FPS dominates them both in the end.

Moneo (deathmoneo): Yanxa (yanxa): oh im not sure, but they still say that if you play on a private wow server they might delete your original acc and etc. <.<

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): Lol, of course people like free, that's like saying people like breathing, and that's why this system works. ISPs have sold their services for years by adding "free", games added "free 30 trial" alot in the past years. This is just the next step.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): yes, players desire the choice to pay or have it free

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): I admit even I am swayed to certain games because of the good graphics

Weasel (nweasel): @debate Both. It's pretty obvious that P2P is currently "recession proof", or at least, from what we've heard, no?

btwbetchFU (garbanian): The p2p games will. The depth of the p2p games will immerse people into a larger scale of gaming, and things to do.

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): F2P isn't by any means "non profit" though

Riobux (lostchances): I think both will last together for a long long time.

Weasel (nweasel): @pain Correct.

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): pain: indeed

Predus (arturf): @Riobux true ;)

Yanxa (yanxa): #Moneo - Goodness. Maybe official servers are for the best..

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): good gameplay and graphics are the key

Crash. snake.kL (crashchris): as i mentioned in my post in the forums about this, why not just have Billboard Ads in the game worlds? can generate cash

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): not just one or the other

Riobux (lostchances): While P2P makes their own profits, F2P are cheap to create.

Leeds© (leedsmauler): Pain: You have my agreement

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): I guess the major difference is that with a F2P game you get an unlimited trial / time to see whether or not you want the extra items that you have to pay for.

cool1990 (hovo1990): personally i would never pay for p2p game,unless it's an fallout mmo,that just freaking amazing

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): ya i agree with u nottacobell

btwbetchFU (garbanian): With the amount of f2p games coming out though, they will still be around. New games are being made all the time, they wont stop.

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): Crash: many games are fantasy games, and that would ruin them

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): F2P cheap to create? I disagree.

Yanxa (yanxa): #Crashcrisis - free advertising and everyone would see it. Sounds like a good idea

SoLiD (epeyon7): why don't millioanires create goood f2p, they ahve money enough hehe ^^

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): Crash: unless for, perhaps, inmenu or splash screen at bootup

Weasel (nweasel): @Crash Only if it doesn't take away from the environment of the game. Some games do so much advertising, that it's like walking around in a TV commerical.

Wuzimu (wuzimu8): @Weasel maybe a few of them will to a P2P as there looking for something wite more content i.e WoW, however there will always be people who wont have the time to get the most out of games that you need to pay monthly for, so they stick to Runescape or play something different such as Guild wars or Silkroad online

Leeds© (leedsmauler): Cool: I found WoW to be amazing, hence I wanna be a member.

Riobux (lostchances): Well, cheapER than F2P.

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): NEXT QUESTION: BloodyMess (colafran): Is there any business model for games out there that you think could work better than F2P or Subscription?

 

Ðønut (alpha064): um

Weasel (nweasel): @Wuzimu :)

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): Well, I'm not going to name some names but I've known some subscription games that were cheap to create, and they reaped the rewards for a long time from a game that could so easily have been f2p.

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): Hybrid

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): a good one

Ðønut (alpha064): Xbox Live was a good model, but its not MMO

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): Good question...

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): Hybrid? Micro-payments?

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Hybrid (Hellgate tried this) doesn't work

Predus (arturf): F2P without dotations and other things like this? :D

Weasel (nweasel): @debate Hmmm.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): hmm. sometimes people can pay for certain bonuses in game, such as discounts or some other things

btwbetchFU (garbanian): Buy to play. Buy the game once, and play it.

Moneo (deathmoneo): Yanxa: Private servers are good because of one reason tho: they are free. But for the original ones, you get to meet more people and it isnt as buggy and laggy as the private one (personal experience)

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): true

Ðønut (alpha064): subscriptions, but people actually pay to play it since the variety

[xs] Gannons (admin) (gannons): Hybrid would bring unbalance to the system tho

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): hellgate was a failure

Predus (arturf): or game

Cormierre (mdcormier): @Debate: It could go on either side of the fence.

With Free2Play, people are likely to be less careful of their actions online as they can create new accounts and characters at will.

With Pay2Play, some are unaffected, and some are alot more prudent.

In other words, for community's sake, it may depend heavily on payment methods (or lack therein)

 

And that's just on the topic of community.

Leeds© (leedsmauler): Donut: Xbox Live is an MMO "congregation zone" but an MMO nonetheless

Weasel (nweasel): B2P and microtransactions are already in effect though.

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): Hybrid - maybe, those who can pay monthly have complete access to the game features vs those who rely on microtransactions.

Predus (arturf): with 2 servers one F2P and second P2P? no that's stupid..

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): community and content are the big parts of a game. if you don't have those, the game will die. on the next question, i think f2p is the longer lasting one. it allows knowledge of the game to be spread around the teenagers and young adults. many will test out the game. those that like it and have the money will, usually, subscribe. this then allows the game creators to improve the f2p and p2p aspects of the game

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Pay as you go? As you get to a higher level you have to pay for the new areas but therefore can spend an unlimited amount of time getting there and aren't forced into payments

~MAJOR.Patterson~ (majorpatterson): Question: As most MMO's are pc based are we going to see anything on consoles in the near future?

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): Cormierre: not neccessarilly... you can still ban by keycode

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Could work, I don't know...

Weasel (nweasel): @Marvin Ew!

SoLiD (epeyon7): I think that in the end nor f2p nor p2p benefits more. Only at p2p you know ur gamers are desired to play.

<[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox) has silenced this room>

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): Alright Everyone

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): In just a few minutes i'm going to open the question room

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): If you have a question that you'd like our guests to debate, ask it there!

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): But again. NO SPAM!

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox):  /unsilenced

<[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox) has unsilenced this room>

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): lol we got pwned

Weasel (nweasel): @MAJOR We already are. DC Universe Online.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): yes many games have multiple things, like pay by sms, and mail in, among others

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): Reshaping CAn be difficult, but not always WILL be. It's about taking a logical approach to it. Look at AO. They're what? 4 years in running on f2p service successfully?

Moneo (deathmoneo): xD

Dr. GonZo (javnm): i would a game that would change depnding on your faction and decesiions and who wins battles like in WAR

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): You see, microtransaction-based games put "expiration" time to items.  They dont get it "permanently", especially those that affects the game and economy.  If it's hybrid, those who can pay can get complete access.

Zhang (zhange): @Debate Question: Thats a tough one I think. I think it varies from game to game. But I would think that in terms of "higher quality", as in graphics and user support, than P2P will continiue to dominate. However most Linux Distros are free and look at that, so maybe F2P just needs more time

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): So where were we

Cormierre (mdcormier): @:[SB]:DarkMan: What do you mean, by keycode?

Riobux (lostchances): I'm not sure I understand the question.

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): rend: Thanks for that... weird as it sounds, but Eve is kinda the holy grail of the industry currently :P

Leeds© (leedsmauler): I think a PAYG system similar to someone elses. But what about paying per group of levels ya reach?

Yanxa (yanxa): OOoh - I have a good question

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): Now, I'm only talking about MMO ;)

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): Consoles? yes... NCSoft is hiring console professionals, trubine is goind to next-gen pahse... who know maybe Blizzard will go there too, wtih their latest TOP Secret title

[xs] Gannons (admin) (gannons): Runescape actually has a decent hybrid system

Predus (arturf): I have a question: Why there are companies which make a lot of games on the same engine with small diferences?

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): How about referrals give you free game time =)

Weasel (nweasel): @Dreamnuker That's right, I remember that. NCSoft has hired console programmers.

[TTHS] Salvenius (sh4dowj): Agreed Zhang

Leeds© (leedsmauler): Gannons: Agreed. I have hybrid sets, and it's very good. And easy :)

=SoA= Ħǿłŧ §¢årþãïn (afandur): its boring though for the free players

Moneo (deathmoneo): runescape is a web-browser game as much as i remember (ugh)

Predus (arturf): F2P mmorpg obvious

SoLiD (epeyon7): I find runescape quite amusing. If u freak on it, u won't mind teh bad graphics.

Ðønut (alpha064): If the monthly fee was lowered to say 7 dollars, more people would probably amass on P2P games

btwbetchFU (garbanian): @Predus, Netgames anyone?

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): So my answer to the question is a Hybrid model ^_^

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): @gannons: i fell the same way ^^

ironsights2 (ironsights2): @Gannons To a certain extent

Weasel (nweasel): @Marvin Some games already do that as well, like EVE Online.

Cormierre (mdcormier): @Predus: Ask those in the questions room when it's open.

cool1990 (hovo1990): ah,and we're saying free realms?

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): @Marvin WoW already does that, very useful :P

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): NEXT QUESTION:BloodyMess (colafran): How vital do you see Social Networking for gamers, and how do you think it affects the average lifespan of a paying player for a title?

 

Crash. snake.kL (crashchris): well yea, advertisments blended with the enviorment, or even at login screens. But at the same time not to purposely annoy the players, like with pop ups, or uncontrolled sounds from the advertsiments. On vehicles, cloths, buildings, billboards, picture/video billboards. Displaying real world products of our world.. Just like Free analog TV does, they dont get paid from viewers, they get paid from advertisers based on ratings..

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Never played EVE actually. Never played WoW either. Why am I here?!

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): lol

Moneo (deathmoneo): hahah

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): good question

Predus (arturf): XDD

Weasel (nweasel): Haha.

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): ask there one when the room opens

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): huger then huge lol

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): that*

Wuzimu (wuzimu8): oh wow, NCSOFT with console programmers, it would be interesting to see how well they make a MMO on the console.

Riobux (lostchances): Social networking?

SoLiD (epeyon7): If you pay, you are morel ikely to play longer.

Kieran/unpk | Lynx WA (lucifrez): Social networking creates a game for most poeple.

Riobux (lostchances): Wait...What?

Weasel (nweasel): @debate Only if it's part of the website itself, I like it.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): that would be interesting, a set of microtransactions

Kieran/unpk | Lynx WA (lucifrez): It IS the game.

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): Social Netowrking is the back bone of the online gaming experience, if we wanted to sit and play alone, we'd be in front of the Xbox.. but evn that is online now, so that says alot for social networking in the gaming industry

Iron (ironsights2): I really doubt any NCSoft game would last on a console

Weasel (nweasel): @ironsights Depends.

Iron (ironsights2): It just wouldn't work with the amount of commands and options there is

Weasel (nweasel): @ironsights RTS' have made it to consoles, why can't MMOs?

Riobux (lostchances): I think that while we all love to play alone, there's a part of us that would like to talk and socialise with people on it.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): I think social interaction is just blatantly the core of a game. If there isn't a gr8 community then it isn't fun. I hate single player games. I love interaction. Once you find gr8 people to do gr8 things with it's just so much better. Especially when you bring items such as ventrilo (voice chat) into the mix

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): it needs to be open and allow both f2p and p2p to commune in a forum or something. thats my big issue with runescape, the forums are p2p only, which nearly made me give the game up last year

Riobux (lostchances): Or we'd just play Final Fantasy.

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): ff7 ftw

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): =D

Predus (arturf): Vincent Valentine FTW~!

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): hell yeah

Moneo (deathmoneo): hehe im currently playing ff7 on my ps

きにょう|Спэцтер (1specter1): Yuffie!

Moneo (deathmoneo): awesome game

Predus (arturf): :D

Iron (ironsights2): @Weasel MMO's are a whole different story

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): Yes but you must remember, very rarely do RTS games work on consoles, I think Halo Wars is going to be the first really successful console RTS

Weasel (nweasel): @ironsights How so?

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): @ Weasel good point - but often you need to be able to communicate and have a vast varity of keybinding to play proerly

Weasel (nweasel): @Zunin So let's consider the keypads that the PS3 and 360 have introduced. Can they be used?

Cormierre (mdcormier): @Debate: It's manditory for some, and unnecessary for others.

For the most part, if you're playing an MMORPG, it's because you seek connecting, communicating, and interacting with others.

Otherwise, you're more likely to choose a single-player RPG for it's more polished feeling and features. In terms to keeping the player occupied, if the player dislikes the community, or there's an overabundance of unruly and evil people, they're likely to shorten their time in the game.

Their local friends are also a factor in their time spent in-game.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): There isn't enough buttons on an xbox controller. Give me a keyboard. And a mouse. Oh wait, that's a computer...

Riobux (lostchances): I think Halo Wars makes me die inside.

Weasel (nweasel): And also, voice chat is in there.

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): A thing which mouse'n'keyboard does really well, and I do not see consoles taking over that

Predus (arturf): Consoles are not for MMOrpgs and FPS!

Iron (ironsights2): @Weasel The vast majority of everything; commands, chat, friends

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): FPS and RTS are gr8 on PC. FPS might work on Xbox but I always prefer it on PC. Racing games and such are way better on consoles

Ðønut (alpha064): Yea, an example of Console MMO that flopped was Final Fantasy

Moneo (deathmoneo): i always have a feeling wow will jump into mmos

Moneo (deathmoneo): i mean

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): USER QUESTION: BloodyMess (colafran): {EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): Q- Do you think that the economy will affect the mmo industry?

 

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): Predus: MMO's perhaps, but there's the problem of chat... you can't use voice as that's annoying, but text chat is a pain

Moneo (deathmoneo): wow will jump into CONSOLES.

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): @ Weasel Yes they could. Of course. I don't see myself doing that though

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): For exmaple. I will never play a MMO which has no Social Networking and Community. Why? Because that's what all MMOs are all about - meeting new people. For example - you play MMO because yo want someone to remember you. Even if you are 100-ed player in the rankings that means people know you. Your nickname is in their heads... and maybe in their hearts

[xs] Gannons (admin) (gannons): @(mdcormier) I agree, I have left servers cause of the type of players on it. Its MMO for a reason. Its to play with other people

SoLiD (epeyon7): Yes

Weasel (nweasel): @donut Well remember, DC Universe Online IS coming to consoles.

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): Definately, that's already started Pheonix.

Weasel (nweasel): @Zunin Me either, but just saying! ;)

Cormierre (mdcormier): @ Dreamnuker: My point EXACTLY. Well met.

Wuzimu (wuzimu8): i agree with not for MMOs, but not for FPS? FPSs do great on the console, afterall the number one selling genre in the FPS and they sell most on consoles

Ðønut (alpha064): It will have to do a lot to convince players to converge on it though

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Uh, maybe some. But games are free time. And we all love our free time.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): well, u must think that companies may no longer have the money to support f2p mmos

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): I think if a very experienced MMO company tried a console MMO they might succeed if they did it right, but they chances of that IMO are 1 in a million

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): On a deeper level anyone that is very deeply affected by the crisis will stop paying for it.

Riobux (lostchances): I feel somewhat limited sometimes playing WoW when I have to do something that forces me to work as a team with a collection of random people.

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): USER QUESTION: BloodyMess (colafran): Lprsti99 (lprsti99): Question: Does anyone remember the first MMO's? To be specific, MUDs? Any of the debaters still play them?

 

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): yes

Riobux (lostchances): This is made worse by "surply and demand".

SoLiD (epeyon7): No i don't hehe, i don't think tehy quite kept up with time.

Ðønut (alpha064): My first MMO was sadly RS

Predus (arturf): I'm too young for it :P

Ðønut (alpha064): in middle school

btwbetchFU (garbanian): Look how much FFXI failed on the consoles though. Menus and such are hard to contain on the consoles. Skill bars anyone?

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): I do remember "Star Wars Gallaxy"

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Sorry, no =(

Ðønut (alpha064): but then I dropped it and started on Knight Online

Ðønut (alpha064): and migrated to Guild Wars

Predus (arturf): I'm 13 now so... ;(

Weasel (nweasel): @btw Well, yes, but, still, I have some friends who will play it no matter what. Odd, no?

Riobux (lostchances): The first MMORPG I ever played was Runescape.

Iron (ironsights2): My first MMO was Runescape aswell.

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): @Donut exactly what happened to me

[xs] Gannons (admin) (gannons): I think the First I remeber is.... runescape.

Riobux (lostchances): I was 13/14 at the time.

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): SWG was go amazing.. really what openeed my eyes for mmos

Riobux (lostchances): I'm 18 now.

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): MUDs!!  - Ansalon MUD for me and DSL (Dark & Shatterred Lands)

Weasel (nweasel): Amazingly, I never played Runescape... haha.

Riobux (lostchances): So...5 years at least?

Predus (arturf): My first was Priston Tale :D I was 7 or something

Iron (ironsights2): Many will disagree, but in my point of view, Runescape opened a whole new world for MMO's

Riobux (lostchances): Wow, what a good survivor.

SoLiD (epeyon7): Yep Runescape here asweel, it was a hype when i started.

Leeds© (leedsmauler): I've heard of DeviousMUD, which was the forerunner to RuneScape. Apparently it was really good, but I've never played. So can't say for myself.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): I played Runescape for...3 hours total. WoW for...30 minutes? yeah. I'm gr8.

[TTHS] Kody (huntaforlife): But like was discussed before, once exposed to better games RS is terrible

[xs] Gannons (admin) (gannons): I still do play runescape, Its really evolved alot actually

btwbetchFU (garbanian): @Weasel. The PC to Console ration is crazy though. How many more PC FFXI users are there than console FFXI?

Weasel (nweasel): @ironsights No, I'll agree with that. :)

Iron (ironsights2): @weasel :)

Weasel (nweasel): @btw Oh yes, no, I agree with that.

Ðønut (alpha064): I've lost countless hours on all MMOs I've played, and the one I ever regretted was 5 minutes on WoW

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): text based was good, but I was introduced to MMO's, specifically runescape, not MUD's

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): Well  sometimes i play Okmu Online and Mu-Online

Cormierre (mdcormier): @btwbetchFU: That's mainly the fault of the developers. Button combos and/or the ability to use the USB slots for a mouse or keyboard are both possibilites and both possible solutions.

Weasel (nweasel): Lots of great points in here! :D

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): USER QUESTION: BloodyMess (colafran): [xs] Gannons (admin) (gannons): Q: do you think the amount of "gold spammers" is effected by F2P or P2P

 

Weasel (nweasel): @debate Nope!

Riobux (lostchances): Nope.

Cormierre (mdcormier): @Debate: Greatly

Predus (arturf): Nope

Ðønut (alpha064): not really

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): nope

Iron (ironsights2): @debate To a certain extent, yes

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Gold spammers go to the popular game. So it's affected by that.

Zhang (zhange): @Debate Quistion: I forget the name at the moment, I think it was runsescape, but the head Dev's nickname was Lord British. And no I have never played it. And I'm not sure of the 2nd MMO, sorry =)

btwbetchFU (garbanian): @Cor, usb connections? Why not use a computer? Most people have them and a normal mid ranged computer can play a lot of MMOs on low/medium.

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): it's affected by popularity

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): nope

Riobux (lostchances): If they're not gold sellers, they're something else.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Not by the other

SoLiD (epeyon7): Depends, how much money is it all worth ?

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): Josh makes a great point. Takes me nothing to make trials and spam just as much.

[xs] Gannons (admin) (gannons): I belive there is. On p2p, you know you have to cash to spend so why not buy more "Fun"

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): yes, it is sometimes frustrating to have a trial account

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): I agree, gold spammers go to popular MMOs.

Weasel (nweasel): @pain Correct-o.

Riobux (lostchances): Either way, they will sell something useless on the internet, there will always be a demand and they will always get money.

Leeds© (leedsmauler): I think it doesn't matter. What does matter is how these gold-sellers and farmers are tackled.

Ðønut (alpha064): Gold spammers give some people an unfair advantage over others

Cormierre (mdcormier): @btwbetchFU: Not everyone has the knowledge to use a PC or it's operating system, not to mention most don't know enough about hardware to know if they're making the right investment to get what they're looking for.

:[SB]:DarkMan (darkuranium): Leeds: indeed, although too many of gold spammers might turn people away

Iron (ironsights2): @donut I'd have to disagree

SoLiD (epeyon7): Godl spammers just mes up the game. But some people are to lazy to get their own gold, so they buy it and keep playing.

Iron (ironsights2): @donut Gold spammers give a disadvantage over everyone

Wuzimu (wuzimu8): @phonix god yes trial accounts are fustrating, theres so much you want to try out, but you just can't fully experience it in a trial. Its just a marketing plan to get people so desperta thatll theyll subscribe

Ðønut (alpha064): my one friend bought 10 mill in GW gold for 5 dollars in real life, pissing off everyone I knew

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): @debate: definately. many people bot to make money off those who dont want to pay. basically, they receive the p2p fee, instead of the game developer. many f2p players might get tired of working (usually grinding) to get money

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Selling your time to someone is an excellent concept.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): sometimes  people believe that they dont need to spend the money, and don't know all the potential costs such as fines for such an action

Leeds© (leedsmauler): @Darkman: Exactly why RuneScape took unusual action to get rid of them. Their technique was brilliant, the best one ever.

Weasel (nweasel): @wuzimu Yes, but the point behind it is that gold sellers use them to make quick accounts to spam in-game.

Iron (ironsights2): But it also depends how you classify a gold spammer

Cormierre (mdcormier): @Donut: I agree. If they're more wealthy than the other player, they can accomplish things faster, and more efficiently with the cash they buy.

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): @marvin:  its business, yes?

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Indeedy do

Predus (arturf): It's great business

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): gr8*

Leeds© (leedsmauler): Yes, it is a great business, but one that needs to be abolished.

SoLiD (epeyon7): It's ahrd to make a mmorpg on console, to few buttons. hehe

Predus (arturf): It's gr8 business

Wuzimu (wuzimu8): @weasel, ah yes, i see your logic, lol

btwbetchFU (garbanian): @Cor But levels go with it. You may have the money, but you cant level any faster with the weapons you can use at certian levels.

[xs] Gannons (admin) (gannons): @(leedsmauler whats the method? do you mean ban on typing www. in chat?

Weasel (nweasel): @Wuzimu :)

btwbetchFU (garbanian): Most games are level restricted or stat restricted.

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): USER QUESTION: BloodyMess (colafran): ~MAJOR.Patterson~ (majorpatterson): Question: As most MMO's are pc based are we going to see anything on consoles in the near future?

 

-=EGC=-Jr.Chunky38 (chunky38): lol scrooop is a douche muffin

Leeds© (leedsmauler): Not just that. Trade limits

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): I just think when you say gr8 it sounds like Tony the Tiger saying grrrrrrreat. because it's gr+eight. get what I'm saying?

Zhang (zhange): @Debate Quistion: I think it depends on how you define "Gold Spammers". If by trading via Real Life currency than I think P2P is more "successfull" than F2P becouse people are pay for  there time in P2P and have a bit more vested Interest if you will.  I think the same goes for In game content aswell, aside from the actual Game company in F2P games. As in, they do some adds

Leeds© (leedsmauler): Removing safe PvP

SoLiD (epeyon7): Not enough buttons on a consoel to go play a mmorpg on console.

Weasel (nweasel): Lots of "yes" to that answer in the main floor chat.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): and consoles have much less lag problems than computers

btwbetchFU (garbanian): Sadly enough.

Ðønut (alpha064): Typing would be a major issue on consoles

Predus (arturf): I gope no

RedRanger! (ventour444): yaeh

Predus (arturf): hope* ==

Cormierre (mdcormier): @btwbetchFU: Don't outrule cashshop items such as EXP multipliers and whatnot, as well as the ability to buy an abundance of potions for leveling safely, and getting the best gear for your level (sets, rare, upgraded)

Leeds© (leedsmauler): yes Donut, that would be

Ðønut (alpha064): even though there are chatpad attachments for consoles

Iron (ironsights2): @debate I highly doubt we will see a quarter of the MMO's there are on consoles

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): consoles have their share of rpg and rts games. they could, but its easier to have those games on a computer

Cormierre (mdcormier): @btwbetchFU: It depends on the game really, but it follows through for the most part from game to game.

RedRanger! (ventour444): mmos are based purely around a mouse and keyboard setting. using a game pad would cause all sorts of problems.

SoLiD (epeyon7): Ho will u ever press ur skills on pc u have 1-8 and like 5-8 rounds of skill bars. Try and do taht on sonsole

 

Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): USER QUESTION: BloodyMess (colafran): ~MAJOR.Patterson~ (majorpatterson): Question: As most MMO's are pc based are we going to see anything on consoles in the near future?

 

[xs] Gannons (admin) (gannons): I would hope not,  I feel consoles are ristricted on how much they can give to the player

Leeds© (leedsmauler): @corm: Only official ones by the company should be allowed. All 3rd party ones should be abolished.

Riobux (lostchances): I think there will be some MMORPGs on consoles, but not mich due to the difficulty of using them.

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): @donut.. well u can connect keyboard or buy special joystiq if you want

Weasel (nweasel): @debate Hwahhhh?!?!

Riobux (lostchances): *much

Predus (arturf): ?

Ðønut (alpha064): yea, but it just wouldn't operate as well as a PC

Leeds© (leedsmauler): @Dream: Never thought of that. Don't think there's one that works on the Nintendo Wii though

RedRanger! (ventour444): That means buying new things just to play mmo's  would people do that?

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Not anything good unless someone goes genius mode on that. I don't have high hopes. And I love my PC. It's my creation.

~MAJOR.Patterson~ (majorpatterson): FF in on the con and is doing well i see ppl playing it all the time the market is there i'm just w8ing for who takes the first step

Zhang (zhange): @ Debate Quistion: I wonder that that too =) Probably not in the near future unless a big name title like Halo or Gears of War went took the stage in that area

~MAJOR.Patterson~ (majorpatterson): or 2nd*

Riobux (lostchances): Then again, I'm sure people didn't think FPS would never kick off on consoles and now COD series is at least pretty damn famous.

Weasel (nweasel): @debate Wrong question by the way debate. :P

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): CoD and Halo for FPS...that's about it.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): ffxi is a great achievement for console based mmo's, and is still popular today

Ðønut (alpha064): yea

Predus (arturf): @debat this question is for the second time

Riobux (lostchances): Debate never gets the wrong question.

Ðønut (alpha064): but not many play FFXI

RedRanger! (ventour444): FPS is no where near as good as on pc. But Thats because gamers on consoles havent either heard of a pc. or cant afford one.

SoLiD (epeyon7): Predus yep tahts true hehe

Cormierre (mdcormier): @Leeds: But in most cases they aren't. All in all, the ability to exchange between currency, in-game currency, and cash-shop currency is going to be an advantage.

Ðønut (alpha064): theres only a small handful I know of

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): And CoD is more awesome on PC anyway. We get maps for FREE! =D

Riobux (lostchances): If there is a fault, it is your misjudgement.

Predus (arturf): @Riobux true! :E

Weasel (nweasel): @Pheonix I agree, it's still alive, and that's something to say period.

Kieran/unpk | Lynx WA (lucifrez): WoW becoming a F2P would destroy it.

btwbetchFU (garbanian): WoW wont become F2P

Iron (ironsights2): The way I could imagine an MMO being multi-platform would be if one were to merge with an FPS, which would be complete crap.

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): @ Bloodymess : Kudos

SoLiD (epeyon7): I'm a die hard CoD gamer hehe

Kieran/unpk | Lynx WA (lucifrez): Blizzard will always be money hungry.

Moneo (deathmoneo): but think

Ðønut (alpha064): cause then Blizzard won't be able to milk WoW

Predus (arturf): WoW gives to much money

Moneo (deathmoneo): it cant suck money from people like for 50 years

Leeds© (leedsmauler): @Corm: I guess, and sending money between accounts on WoW is another thing that peeves me off. It encourages "twinks", people that have the best Lv19 armour

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): @Kieran/unpk every company is money hungry

RedRanger! (ventour444): @ Kieran there would be so many noob advertisemt accounts

Weasel (nweasel): Blizzard has no reason to make WoW into a F2P.

Leeds© (leedsmauler): Instead of working hard for it

[xs] Gannons (admin) (gannons): There are WoW private servers and see how those run? thats what wow would be like as a F2P

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): I give WoW 5 years, 6 months, 7 days, 13 hours and 23 minutes to live. Boom. Headshot..?

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): @lynx: WoW would be great if they made it f2p. remember, they already get money from you purchasing the game in the store

Iron (ironsights2): WoW will be a game nobody can play pretty soon.

SoLiD (epeyon7): @Weasel  i agree, they make enough money allready

Predus (arturf): WoW is just money

Moneo (deathmoneo): or just closing wow and making a galaxy of starcraft

Leeds© (leedsmauler): @Gannons: How do the private servers run may I ask?

Ðønut (alpha064): and the millions of dollars from monthly fees

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Galaxy of Starcraft...Oh shit

Predus (arturf): how many mllions are playing it?

btwbetchFU (garbanian): @10ne, it is no where near what they get from the subscriptions.

Cormierre (mdcormier): @Kieran: Some might argue there.

Alot of people pay more for F2P games than they would for WoW's subscription. Take Perfect World International or Maple Story for example.

Predus (arturf): 11?

Riobux (lostchances): Closing down WoW to run an ant farm full time.

Riobux (lostchances): Wow, I'd pay to see that happen.

Iron (ironsights2): Blizzard just frustrates many young kids as their parents can't afford $15 a month

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): They already made Starcraft a three-game thing as a marketing ploy

Weasel (nweasel): Haha.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Imagine running around as a level 80 zealot

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Hoozah!

Moneo (deathmoneo): xDD

Predus (arturf): XDD

Zhang (zhange): Are they really being money hungery (Blizzerd) or just trying to be safe due to a high vested interest? They also have bills to pay and alot of people to please overall

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): @ Cormierre good point

Cormierre (mdcormier): Thank you sir or miss.

Moneo (deathmoneo): Gakaxy of Starcraft! - Like WoW wasnt enough for you, you nerd!

Wuzimu (wuzimu8): @Red Ranger i agree, the console will never beat the PC in gameplay, mainly due to the fact you can have more control with a keyboard and mouse than the limited game pad. But alot of people just can't afford or simply arnt in the know on how to upgrade your PC which in my opinion is the biggest problem of the PC

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): Sir ^_^

 

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): USER QUESTION: BloodyMess (colafran): Moneo (deathmoneo): Question: Does P2P games mean more money for the creators of the game?

 

btwbetchFU (garbanian): @Debate Question - It all depends on what the costs of the cash shop are and how useful the items are compared to the cost of teh P2P game.

Weasel (nweasel): @debate In income, or in profit, or in pay...? :/ Such a vague question.

Iron (ironsights2): Blizzard outdid themselves by making their game so popular

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): Guys do you think that there's END GAME content in F2P MMOs? Or it's all just about grinding?

[xs] Gannons (admin) (gannons): @leedsmauler Mostly by everyday people, but coordination would be needed if normal people took over WoW.

Leeds© (leedsmauler): @Zhang: I'd say they're trying to protect the mature audience. It's a mature game and they don't want little kids flooding it.

Riobux (lostchances): In short: Yes.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): You're in an Xfire debate chat. Who's the nerd?!

Ðønut (alpha064): lol

~MAJOR.Patterson~ (majorpatterson): BIAS!!!

Riobux (lostchances): Longer answer: God yes.

Iron (ironsights2): The price will continue to go up as the number of players goes up

RedRanger! (ventour444): @ Wuzimu Thats entirely True.

btwbetchFU (garbanian): @dream some F2P games do, some don't. I depends on the game.

SoLiD (epeyon7): Not allways, it does mean more balanced between costs and income.

Predus (arturf): depends on game

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): It depends. For WoW - yes. For others maybe. For most - no.

Riobux (lostchances): The problem is, some games they can bump the monthly fee to £20 a month and people would still pay.

Predus (arturf): @Marvin exactly

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): I think Free 2 Play is a safer concept overall

Cormierre (mdcormier): @Debate:  It depends on the game, as btwbetchFU said.

What I said earlier is an example: Maple Story and Perfect World.

Iron (ironsights2): I do aswell

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Which is why it's more popular

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): @debate: definately, especially if you buy the game in a store. of course, due to expenditures, they might loose a substantial amount of their profits maintaining and improving the game

Iron (ironsights2): F2P is a safer concept for both the economy, and the game developers

btwbetchFU (garbanian): @DEbate It also depends on the tradablitiy of the F2P cash shop. Can the items be traded for in game money?

SoLiD (epeyon7): Less players = less cost, more players means more payers.   Statistics willl determen this and yet it'll be different o nevery game.

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): As Cor just said in here, some people wil pay more on F2P games than they wil on a P2P system. Just by nature of how the F2P system works, people who would normally pour money into a subscription will now pour money into accessories and make themselves epic through money. I don't think it has to be a profit loss. Content, and a reason to pay are the keys.

Weasel (nweasel): Whew, becoming tired, heh...

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Is the debate really over in a minute? I'm having so much fun =/

[xs] Gannons (admin) (gannons): I guess it kinda equels out. P2P allows more money on devolopment of the game. Which in turn leads to more cash flow.

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): well the gamer audience determines a game overall

Iron (ironsights2): WoW would continue to make a load of money if they depended soley on advertisements

Iron (ironsights2): So would Runescape

SoLiD (epeyon7): I hope they answer my  question :)

Riobux (lostchances): Using your logic Solid, people should be aiming to flop?

Predus (arturf): @ironsgiht but as many as now?

Cormierre (mdcormier): @Debate Extended: Maple Story likely makes the most money from cashshop in history; the game has survived for years, and it's still going strong, plus the only option for leveling properly after a certain amount of time is to purchase daily EXP multipliers.

SoLiD (epeyon7): No

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): and it cant be determined by money, if a company is losing gamers then they are failing in thier duties

Iron (ironsights2): @predus not as much, but enough to pay out the employees

Weasel (nweasel): @ironsights Yes, but, would the community continue to be the same as it was? It would probably get lots of the younger crowd, and scare away some of the more mature.

SoLiD (epeyon7): It's logical taht if more peopel play more will pay

Leeds© (leedsmauler): @CJCOS: Excellent point

RedRanger! (ventour444): @ Debate. F2p Can be good, as long as it is appealing to players, and also the cash shops are good, this gives players who like spending money on mmo's and being better than other players a chance to waste money. Otherwise, its just a waste of time for the developers, they  dont get half of what they would get if they made the game p2p.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Maple Story also has like a version for each part of the world. Maple Story Antarctica anyone?

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): @ Arend KUDOS

Riobux (lostchances): Nice logic Solid.

RedRanger! (ventour444): lol

Weasel (nweasel): @pain Agreed.

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): Main Floor: Yes, F2P and P2P are measured differently when it comes to revenue ;)

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): I like how they banned everyone in Europe from global maple after Maple Europe got relased. Does that even make sense? b&!

Iron (ironsights2): @weasel As long as games continue to thrive, so will the younger people in games

Cormierre (mdcormier): @Marvin: I'd forgotten that. Thank you, very well placed.

[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox (debateox): BloodyMess (colafran): Last questioin folks

BloodyMess (colafran): Debateox (debateox): cool1990 (hovo1990): hi,i'd like to ask,is it possible to make 50 million budget mmo with a f2p model?

Riobux (lostchances): Theoretically, yes.

Zhang (zhange): @Debate Quistion: I think it depends on the contracts and the sponsers if any. But overall I would say yes. I assume that P2P Devs have a fixed salary at some level

Riobux (lostchances): Then again, you need to get that money back.

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): Absolutely yes

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Yes. Look at Maple. Case closed.

Predus (arturf): of course it is

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): nice number cool xD

Weasel (nweasel): @ironsights No no, I agree with that. But I mean, if WoW went to F2P with ads, I think the community would change a bit, and it may chase away some of the current player base to the point where it POTENTIALLY could ruin it.

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): isn't this debate supposed to over now

Iron (ironsights2): Of course

SoLiD (epeyon7): Depends if you get add-ons but in a ocmpletly 100% f2p game you will never ever get that hehe

Riobux (lostchances): The hard part is not getting a very angry sponser wondering where the hell their money is.

Weasel (nweasel): @LukA Probably. :P

btwbetchFU (garbanian): You can invest whatever you want into it, if it is appealing, you will see them money come back. It depends on features really.

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): to answer, definately. those who want an advantage will have a shopping spree in the donation/p2p shops

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): :o

Predus (arturf): @Luka no ! :P

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): The Mummy-MMO???

Weasel (nweasel): XD

[xs] Gannons (admin) (gannons): Yes, use like 1 million to bring it online and then spend the rest on keeping it up. updates and staff pay

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): hmm.... many f2p games are swamped with advertisements and that can ruin the game overall for the players, I am glad that runescape listened to the players and removed video advertisements regardless of the money they were making

Cormierre (mdcormier): @Debate: Very possible, you just have to know what people are looking for and to do the right research.

If people will pay so much on F2P games, and others will pay so much on P2P games, there's no doubt that if you gathered all interests towards one MMORPG you could make potentially limitless money.

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): @ Weasel definatly.. I'd hate more adds  in my gameplay within WoW

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Do you want the debate to be over? No. It's gr8.

Wuzimu (wuzimu8): @question, offcourse, if you had the right buisness model, enough players and adds/sponsors you could make a ton of money, maybe not as much as Blizzard, but enough to keep the game going and get decent salaries

Iron (ironsights2): @weasel But there will still be the same amount of adults, until some decide to quit

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): Hmm, my question will probably get asked, so I'll ask here :p  "Will an F2P (coupled with Microtransaction) model save an ailing P2P MMO? Why or Why not?"

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): @phoenix: i hear you there, those video ads were annoying

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): will probably NOT* get asked :p

Iron (ironsights2): @weasel And as always, the adults will move on

Riobux (lostchances): One thing I'd be interested in, would be a GTA: MMORPG.

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): i don't ,just wondering because i got information that it's 1 hour-lasting

Zhang (zhange): @Debate Quistion: I think its possible, but not very probable =D The reason is I think becouse companies do not want to "throw Away" there money on a risky game. However 50M budget P2P's may indeed become F2P at some point, Anarchy Online for example

Leeds© (leedsmauler): @lone: Look at the TV ads for WoW. They're stupid, but so effective

Predus (arturf): Sims: Online 2?

btwbetchFU (garbanian): It depends on the hype of the game as well. Not all the money will go into making the game. You have to think of advertising as well.

Iron (ironsights2): @weasel And then the same thing will happen to that game

Weasel (nweasel): @Predus it existed.

Weasel (nweasel): @ironsights I do see your point now actually.

Predus (arturf): @Weasel 2 edition? ;o oh my..

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): but that is not open to as large an audience as the other mmo's, many less ppl would be interested in a GTA MMORPG

Iron (ironsights2): @weasel I'm glad :)

Weasel (nweasel): @Predus Haha. Not sure if it was "2" edition, but a Sims Online DID exist.

Riobux (lostchances): Are you sure Pheonix...Really?

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): @ debate : As said above, it's all about content.. If you have a good game, f2p or p2p, why wouldn't people play it? Do things right and it can work.. That's been the case all along, before this was an issue.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): GTA's concept is single player. You can't have a commnity of 5000 badasses stealing each other's Porsches. Like what is that?

Zhang (zhange): I would be interested to some extent in a GTA MMO =)

SoLiD (epeyon7): Godo debate all bye.

Weasel (nweasel): :)

Predus (arturf): @Weasel but there is Second Life that's all ;D

Cormierre (mdcormier): @Riobux: Don't hold your breath. If it existed, the graphics and physics would be greatly nerfed and the gameplay would change to the point it would hardly be Grand Theft Auto anymore.

Riobux (lostchances): I think people would be all over a GTA: MMORPG like it was free.

Weasel (nweasel): @Predus LOL. Exactly!

btwbetchFU (garbanian): You can have a 50mil p2p and a 50mil f2p and the F2P can outlast the P2P with the right content.

Moneo (deathmoneo): hahah

Riobux (lostchances): Dang, way to rain on my parade Cormierre.

Zhang (zhange): @Cormierre: That would not be fun

Moneo (deathmoneo): world of GTA

Cormierre (mdcormier): @Riobux: I'm sorry.

btwbetchFU (garbanian): over already D= *sigh*

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): Thanks to the Devs for showing up and putting some god topics on the table =)

cool1990 (hovo1990): it's over,ouch

çòmräðè τลсо (nottacobell): gg

Predus (arturf): Galaxy of GTA?

Moneo (deathmoneo): beating the crap of everyone on the road

Dreamnuker (dreamnuker): What  you think MMO game indurstry will look like after 10 (ok ok 5) years after.

Predus (arturf): Universe or something

Leeds© (leedsmauler): Thanks to all who attended I say. Brilliant debate

SoLiD (epeyon7): To bad m questio nwasn't answered hehe

Wuzimu (wuzimu8): thanks Devs for showing up!

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): You do know just to say something. GTA multiplayer DOES exist. It's a mod for PC and run by independent people.

Riobux (lostchances): Galaxy of GTA?

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): very good debate

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): thanks!

Zhang (zhange): @[+pặịŋ+]: Agreed!

SoLiD (epeyon7): Thansk all.

Predus (arturf): MTA i think

Predus (arturf): xd

Weasel (nweasel): I enjoyed this throughly. Great to meet you all! Please feel free to add me. :)

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): And yeah thanks guys

[TTHS] Salvenius (sh4dowj): Aye thanks for company ^_^

Predus (arturf): It was great

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): Will do

Riobux (lostchances): What? Where you fly in space ships, high jacking people and shooting lazers?

Cormierre (mdcormier): Yes, I agree. It's nice to see the more rational and logical minds on Xfire rather than the ones that spam me.

Moneo (deathmoneo): well... but there isnt a MMORPG!

Zunin Toku (zunintoku): thanks for the conversation

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Yeah add me to :o

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): i learned some things and hope i made a few points as well, goodbye!!

[TTHS] Salvenius (sh4dowj): now I be off to play some more battlefield heroes >:3

Zhang (zhange): Good debate Gals and Guys =)

Riobux (lostchances): Sounds like a darker version of Eve to me.

[xs] Gannons (admin) (gannons): Thanks for Giving me an awesome first debate. Hope to join the next one!

'Laibcoms' (laibcoms): well, Good Morning to everyone, till the next debate ^^

Predus (arturf): and me to :D

Cormierre (mdcormier): Have a nice day/night everyone.

Good debate.

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): We should all continue the debate in their absence, and maybe form a small army to take over the world!

Moneo (deathmoneo): gj, awesome debate. my first too!

{EL}-CJCOS-Pheonix (swbf2lord): lol

Predus (arturf): yup!

Riobux (lostchances): Nice debate, even if I did get lost fast.

Zhang (zhange): Yout oo

SoLiD (epeyon7): haha

btwbetchFU (garbanian): g'day all/

cool1990 (hovo1990): great debate,had a lot of fun

Weasel (nweasel): o7

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): A small army

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Like terrorists?

Zhang (zhange): you*

Wuzimu (wuzimu8): great debating guys! till next time lads!

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): of gaming?

Predus (arturf): xfire pros?

SoLiD (epeyon7): +p to much fantasy in ur head m8 xD

Iron (ironsights2): Well everyone, have a good day!

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): adios, all

ŁuкA (sharpshot111): bye

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): Lol, gaming terrorism, what a way to make the gaming industry look good, aye?

Moneo (deathmoneo): xDD

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): well

Wuzimu (wuzimu8): xD

Riobux (lostchances): Haha, gaming terrorism.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): What else can we do for attention

Predus (arturf): maybe

Predus (arturf): wait for SC2? ;<

Moneo (deathmoneo): "Niko casted mega baseball bat hit!"

Riobux (lostchances): Just imagine a suicide bomber hugging a server and pulling the pins on his jacket.

SoLiD (epeyon7): Well tehy did teach us to be a teerrorist :p

Iron (ironsights2): 10 year olds are gaming terrorism

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Apparently putting naked girls in games (Mass Effect) was a bad idea (Anyone see that video?!)

Wuzimu (wuzimu8): yea, xD

lOnE-WolF (devongreene): off to my physics, hope to see you all at the next debate. good night everyone ^^

Predus (arturf): no

Zhang (zhange): Actually, Gaming Terrorism was brought up in the MMO Second Life

Ðønut (alpha064): I'm off to the store

Predus (arturf): I haven't seen it ;d

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): We really need to solve world peace, and pollution, and then look at everyone and say "SEE! Now leave us the %$^& ALONE!"

Moneo (deathmoneo): "enemy falls down crippled with a broken spine!"

Leeds© (leedsmauler): I'll be at the next debate

Wuzimu (wuzimu8): Fox news totally blew it out of praportion though

Moneo (deathmoneo): "LEVEL UP!"

Iron (ironsights2): I'm going to draw now

Riobux (lostchances): "OH NO! SERVER 253 IS DOWN! WE'VE LOST 20 CUSTOMERS! OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!".

Iron (ironsights2): See you all :D

Predus (arturf): OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Iron (ironsights2): Actually

SoLiD (epeyon7): haha

Riobux (lostchances): Haha, yes.

Iron (ironsights2): come to think of it

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): @Zhang - Different sort of terrorism, lol

Iron (ironsights2): Jack Thompson is like the Al Queda of gaming

Leeds© (leedsmauler): They're so very cool. I like meeting with like minded players.

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Okay new concept

Predus (arturf): lol

Predus (arturf): ironsight :D

Iron (ironsights2): :D

-{Marvin}- |SaY| (quiksilver13): Get everyone in the world addicted to a game. It'll stop everyone from doing anything. gr8 concept.

Wuzimu (wuzimu8): xD

Riobux (lostchances): Nah Iron, I'd say he's like Saddam.

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): Anyone feel free to add me, I like a good debate now and then ^.~

Riobux (lostchances): Dead, very dead.

Leeds© (leedsmauler): Virtual, I'll add you

Riobux (lostchances): Just not in the same way.

[+pặịŋ+] (virtualsin): lmao Rio

Iron (ironsights2): @Riobux No hes dead

Zhang (zhange): @ [+pặịŋ+]: My mistake, thanks for the correction ^^;