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Xfire Debate Club 10th Meeting: Best of Gaming 2007
December 5th, 2007 (Main Floor Transcript)
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: Hello Everyone and Welcome to the 11th Xfire Debate Club: The Best Games of 2007!
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: I'd like to give a very special welcome to our Moderator Extraordinaire, the fantastic writer and former editor of gamesindustry.biz, Robert Fahey!
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: Take it away Rob!
robfahey: Thanks very much - although I can't promise to be even remotely extraordinaire, despite such a wonderful introduction, I'm afraid.
robfahey: Before we start, I'd like all our panelists to introduce themselves briefly, please - I understand you've all been pre-selected for your argumentative, stubborn natures, so hopefully it'll be a good debate!
GamesRadar Eric: I'm Eric Bratcher, which means I'm also the Executive Editor of GamesRadar.com's US operations. And that may be the only thing I say that is not debatable.
[GI] Andy Mc: Andy McNamara, editor in chief of Game Informer magazine here.
[Joystiq] Chris: Chris Grant, Editor in Chief of Joystiq.com, Editorial Director of all that other Joystiq stuff (think WoW Insider, Xbox 360 Fanboy, etc.), and an altogether non-argumentative sorta guy. Oh, drat.
Julianne - The Escapist: Julianne Greer, Editorial Director of The Escapist and WarCry Network.
jimgreer (Kongregate): Hi - I'm Jim Greer the cofounder and CEO of Kongregate - I think I'm the only non-journalist here. Kongregate is a Flash games site where all the games are uploaded by the developers. We have a bunch of community features like achievements, points, levels, chat, etc. Players can rate games which win prize money based on those ratings. We just started in March of this year and now have about 2300 games and 1.3 million unique visitors per month.
1upsamk: I'm Sam Kennedy, the editor in chief of 1UP.com. I like videogames.
jimgreer (Kongregate): I'm also an ex-game programmer - first games were Ultima VII and Ultima VIII.
[Joystiq] Chris: well, that makes one of us.
robfahey: Excellent, cheers guys. The rules are simple - no biting, no hair pulling and, er, that's it actually.
1upsamk: Thank goodness this is a chat session, then!
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: Yay No Rules!
robfahey: The topic for this afternoon (or late tonight here in London) is "The Best Games of 2007" - so, in a lazy-moderator masterstroke, my first question to all of you is...
1upsamk: What's going to happen to Gerstmann?
[Joystiq] Chris: Zing!
robfahey: What, in your view, is the best game of 2007? One game only please!
Julianne - The Escapist: nice
1upsamk: (sorry, I couldn't resist)
1upsamk: hmm...
robfahey: I could put on my best BBC voice and ask it in terms of which 2007 game you'd take to a desert island with you, if that helps.
GamesRadar Eric: It's tough because there were some genre-defining games this year, but I'm going with Orange Box for several reasons. Value, variety, quality
[Joystiq] Chris: This is a tricky question! I'd like to say Portal, but some folks want to group that into Orange Box (Yeah, I'm lookin at you Spike VGA Awards). That's like giving Best Picture to a DVD 2-pack with Braveheart and a made for Lifetime movie.
[GI] Andy Mc: It always depends on what you like, but on a personal level, The Burning Crusade - but im a mmorpg nerd like that
jimgreer (Kongregate): I'm going to stick to what I know and vote for best Flash game - Desktop Tower Defense
Julianne - The Escapist: Yeah, it's kind of tough to call Orange Box the best Game (singular)
1upsamk: Yeah, I'd say Orange Box as well, but like others pointed out -- it's not just one game.
1upsamk: In parts, probably not, as a whole, then yes.
robfahey: Orange Box is pretty much impossible to beat on value, definitely - but since everyone seems uncomfortable with counting it as one game, what would your choices be if we split it up into its constituent parts?
jimgreer (Kongregate): I'll definitely vote for Portal as Best Orange Box Game of the Year
1upsamk: Rob: right. especially if it were to be the one game you take with you to a desert island; there's plenty of value there.
GamesRadar Eric: The Orange Box as a single entity was something we talked about at length here. But to me, that just solidifies it. I think it's great that they didn't break those into separate boxes and charge extra for them. But there were several of us here ready to give Game of the Year to Portal alone.
Julianne - The Escapist: Portal was great because it was essentially a puzzle game mixed in with shooters, but it definitely held it's own and appelaed to those who liked the other parts of the orange box
Julianne - The Escapist: that's pretty snazy work, there
GamesRadar Eric: You could easily break it into at least three bits: Portal, TF2, and the Half-Life 2 stuff
robfahey: I reckon I could spend a decade on a desert island just doing that achievement where you have to squash all the antlion grubs.
1upsamk: As for a standalone title, right now I'd probably lean on Call of Duty 4, to be honest.
GamesRadar Eric: Tha'ts a hot one. I'll probably draw fire for this, but we haven't played Halo 3 multiplayer in the office since we got CoD 4 in.
[GI] Andy Mc: Call of Duty is easily my console GOTY
Julianne - The Escapist: Yeah, CoD4 is very nice, but then Super Mario Galaxy is pretty sweet
1upsamk: Eric, exactly -- almost the same here.
[Joystiq] Chris: I think Portal's doubly great because you're talking about a gmae that took 3-4 hours to 'beat' -- it's a puzzle game mixed with a shooter. It's really a totally different sort of game. Couple that with the really sharp wit, and the song (of course, that song!) and a winner is it.
robfahey: My console vote would have to go for Super Mario Galaxy too, but I'm a bit afraid to say so here. I can feel the Half-Life / Call of Duty / Halo testosterone pumping in here.
[GI] Andy Mc: well it all leads to the wonderful problem we have in video games this year....too much great product...if oyu love music games you have rockband and GH3, if you love first person shooters you [fill in awesome FPS here] and if you like action platformers you have Mario and Ratchet....really hard to complain about much
GamesRadar Eric: CoD 4's multiplayer is just so expertly balanced, and the fact that even the best player can be taken out with a good shot - it's a great equalizer. But yes, Portal is as sweet as it is short, and I think most gamers feel satisfied by it.
[Joystiq] Chris: I've got to say Jim, I know at least one other person who selected Desktop Tower Defense as GOTY for the VGAs -- it wasn't a finalist though. :(
1upsamk: I love that there's a lot of diversity between this year's really top games -- you've got stuff like Rock Band, then there's Bioshock, then there's Mario Galaxy, and then even stuff like Skate. It's not just: what's the best shooter of 2007?
1upsamk: Andy: yeah, exactly
GamesRadar Eric: Agreed. Not to quote an AM/PM commercial, but there's too much good stuff. Great problem to have
1upsamk: This year it's not so much about what's the best game, it's what's the best game for the type of gamer that I am?
jimgreer (Kongregate): 1up - definitely agree - if you look at the diversity this year compared to a few years ago the difference is huge
1upsamk: It's a great problem to have!
robfahey: It's a common - and wonderful - complaint. I know people who are staring at their calendars and scheduling Mass Effect for, ooh, February sometime.
[GI] Andy Mc: and to think this is the first real year of Nintendo bringing in more casual gamers into the market...so while the vriety is impressive this year....it should get even better in the years that follow
1upsamk: rob: exactly. I think most of 1up is looking forward to the holidays just to catch up on all of this year's great games. I know I am.
[GI] Andy Mc: In fact it will make GOTY more about personal preference than ever before
[GI] Andy Mc: Talk to 10 different video gamers and you coudl get 10 different answers
[Joystiq] Chris: Well, just the glut of games this year is staggering. And the glut of great games is nearly unprecedented. I'm thinking of winter '04 with Halo 2, GTA: SA, Metroid Prime 2, MGS3, Half-Life 2, Fable, WoW
1upsamk: Chris: Yeah, probably best holiday season since then.
robfahey: This is steering dangerously close to "everyone agrees to disagree slightly in an amiable fashion" territory. I had hoped for fisticuffs by this point.
[Joystiq] Chris: well, it's only been two years :P But those two sort of stand out historically.
[Joystiq] Chris: Alright, all you slackers are wrong.
[Joystiq] Chris: It's Kane & Lynch
robfahey: In an attempt to enliven such spirit, how about we break this down to something a little more precise - and close to the hearts of Xfire users
1upsamk: But a lot of that is also due to where we are in the console cycle -- and this also bodes quite well for next year and the year after. We're past the craze of the system launches and the games that didn't need to get rushed to the market and/or take better advantage of the hardware are coming out.
Julianne - The Escapist: we're jsut getting started
robfahey: Online games! Which online game, at the end of the year, is the one that's stolen away your evenings online - and which do you think you'll still be playing for months to come?
GamesRadar Eric: Gotta be Team Fortress, doesn't it?
GamesRadar Eric: 2, I mean
[GI] Andy Mc: Burning Crusade and CoD4
jimgreer (Kongregate): I was only able to start kongregate because I got over my WoW and poker addictions
[Joystiq] Chris: ... With all this CoD4 talk, I feel supremely unqualified to comment since I haven't spent much time in it yet. I have, however, spent many many hours in Halo 3's Rocket Races which are, scientifically speaking, 100% Pure Fun(tm)
1upsamk: Eric: Yeah, lots of people would agree with that. That and COD4.
jimgreer (Kongregate): So I spend most of my gaming time playing Flash games with the occasionaly XBLA game thrown in
GamesRadar Eric: Maybe Call of Duty 4, yeah. TF2 has the history, but we are all hooked on CoD4 here. That might be a flavor to taste thing
Julianne - The Escapist: I'll throw in a vote for Burning Crusade. That and TF2
[Joystiq] Chris: Again, amazing how many great multiplayer FPS experiences there are this year.
robfahey: I guess all the love for Halo 3 evaporated when CoD4 and TF2 appeared, then?
[GI] Andy Mc: more oftern....people know about the hits....its the other stuff from earlier in the year I hope people dont forget....I loved Co-op Crackdown, and Rainbow Six Vegas
[Joystiq] Chris: People, Rocket Races. C'mon. It's like drinking Pepsi and eating Pop Rocks, but in video game format.
GamesRadar Eric: I think Halo3 is amazing, and the adjustable elements are great. Such as rocket races. But those other two are just so finely tuned - they're existing ideas taken to the ultimate level of polish.
1upsamk: Rob: not ALL the love, but yeah, I can at least comment about what I've seen happen with a lot of the 1up staff having moved on to COD4 especially.
1upsamk: Actually, this brings up a funny dilemma that I've been hearing about.
robfahey: Is this going to be Gerstmann again?
[Joystiq] Chris: <braces for anecdote>
1upsamk: Some people have felt that they've needed to stick with one game -- Halo 3 or COD4 -- at a time, because switching between the two would cause their game to diminish in both.
[Joystiq] Chris: I love what gamers would call a dilemma. =)
1upsamk: So right now, a lot of people in the office have had to put Halo 3 on hold for the time being.
1upsamk: I know :)
robfahey: It's up there with "Do I pay my WoW subscription or my rent?"
GamesRadar Eric: That's... huh. That's almost like a microcosm of the belief that you have to only have one console and support it exclusively.
[Joystiq] Chris: "Do I do more of this fun thing, or have to stop to do some of this fun thing over here?! I JUST DON'T KNOW!"
Julianne - The Escapist: I've heard that too. They can't really hone skills in one game while playing another, cuz the moves get a little mixed up. Messes with musclue memory.
jimgreer (Kongregate): I'm not qualified to say but I'm seeing more WoW fatigue among my friends than I used to.
Julianne - The Escapist: Good dilemma to have.
robfahey: It's more a weird look into the minds of hyper-competitive gamers, to my mind. It's a lot easier to enjoy things when it's taken for granted that you'll suck at everything. Like me.
[GI] Andy Mc: So I noticed no one said, Bioshock......did its early fall release hurt iton GOTY votes since it wouldnt be as fresh in peoples minds?
jimgreer (Kongregate): My co-worker here, who made the Leeroy Jones video, just quit last night, sending Blizzard this email: You guys are AWFUL just AWFUL at balancing PVP. Does anyone at Blizzard play on an arena team at all? Have you EVER played against a 4DPS team? It is unreal. Maybe you guys should contract the starcraft team so they can teach you how to balance a game properly. I can't remember the last time I got done playing arena and said "Oh, that was a really fun experience"
This game is terrible.
GamesRadar Eric: I sort of do the same thing, though. I plan to plow through Blacksite despite its rep, simply because I love the mythos and Harvey Smith's work, but I can't do that until I finish Assassin's Creed.
[Joystiq] Chris: Re: BioShock -- definitely in my top couple ... two or three maybe. I just loved Portal SOOO much. Really, it's sort of weird how much I like Portal.
[GI] Andy Mc: I agree with you there Jim....the pvp stuff is completly unbalanced, and the welfare epics have to stop
robfahey: Before we go onto WoW, and the whole MMOG circus, I think Bioshock deserves some quick discussion
jimgreer (Kongregate): The reason I was able to quit is because I saw my friends who were about 6 months further on than me getting sick of WoW
1upsamk: Andy: I was going to ask that too. I think it was just that, well, people were supremely excited about its atmosphere for a while there, but in terms of what people are still PLAYING right now? It's more of the multiplayer stuff. It's not top of mind anymore.
jimgreer (Kongregate): whoops, I typed Leeroy Jones instead of Jenkins
GamesRadar Eric: I agree. I absolutely loved BioShock. But this was just a crazy good year.
1upsamk: But yeah, it's interesting how Bioshock, at one point at least, was considered THE game of the year.
robfahey: Bioshock was being feted to the high heavens when it came out - now it seems to be lucky to make a top five. Do we all just have short memories?
[Joystiq] Chris: What'd you say?
robfahey: (yes, you're already discussing this, but I've got my prepared questions and I'm going to copy and paste them, dammit.)
1upsamk: rob: yes, we're gamers.
[Joystiq] Chris: Oh yeah, short memories. ;)
jimgreer (Kongregate): Biowhat now?
1upsamk: rob: most people also forget God of War II came out earlier this year.
[Joystiq] Chris: Again, I think for a certian kind of gamer, BioShock is probably still #1
[GI] Andy Mc: I wish I could remember why I lost all my short term memory....hmmm....
1upsamk: who are you people?
robfahey: I'll never forget that, there's a dent in the bedroom wall of my old house from a God of War II propelled PS2 pad.
GamesRadar Eric: For many people, I think BioShock will still be GotY. But some seasoned gamers will realize how similar it is to System Shock 2 - which was, admittedly, fantastic - but Portal just kicks you in the head and shouts "OH, yeah? Tell us you've seen this before!"
[Joystiq] Chris: *high fives Eric*
1upsamk: very true
jimgreer (Kongregate): the tone of portal is much more appealing to me than that of bioshock
[GI] Andy Mc: Portal is definitely new....but its whole narrative is a commentary/parity of the video game experience....hence why games love it, cause they are in on the joke
robfahey: The comparisons between Portal and Bioshock rather dumps on the idea that the games market doesn't reward innovation, doesn't it?
1upsamk: What about the complaint of portal being too short and all that?
[Joystiq] Chris: Well, the tone of BioShock is pretty bleak.
[GI] Andy Mc: without the commentary, I dont think Portal would be as embraced as it is
[GI] Andy Mc: and dont get me wrong, I loved it
[Joystiq] Chris: well, portal is short. It's intended to be. It's a distilled experience, which makes it all the more exciting as you make your way through it. And be honest, which one of you wou;dn
jimgreer (Kongregate): I never thought I'd talk about how important the writing is in a puzzle game, but Portal really showed me
[Joystiq] Chris: wouldn't be willing to spend a ton of money on downloadable Portal maps?
GamesRadar Eric: Portal is short, no question. But it's also incredibly memorable, and the more games we all play, I think that's what we want. Seriously, how many games have you guys played that you can't even remember a single moment of? You don't want to pass the time. You want to experience something.
jimgreer (Kongregate): I'd love to see user-generated portal maps
GamesRadar Eric: Yeah. User maps would rock.
1upsamk: Eric: Yeah, definitely agree with you there.
[Joystiq] Chris: Or guest maps by other designers, like that one the guy from Bethesda made.
1upsamk: Oh man, that'd be sweet.
robfahey: You know, every time I glance into the Open room I see people shouting at each other about World of Warcraft, so maybe we should go back to that briefly. Obviously it's still the MMOG people are feeling most love (and hate) for, but did any other MMO catch your eyes this year, or is it all about the Burning Crusade?
1upsamk: Lord of the Rings Online was probably the only real WoW contender this year, right?
Julianne - The Escapist: Lord of the Rings was well executed and put in a lot of things people wanted to see.
[GI] Andy Mc: it was decent, so was tabula rasa....but decent in the MMO market wont keep people interested
GamesRadar Eric: My knowledge of that one is second-hand, but I think you're probably right. Odd that Tabula Rasa didn't catch on as much as we'd thought it might.
robfahey: I'd throw Tabula Rasa into that pile as well, but it might be a contentious choice - it certainly was when we reviewed it.
Julianne - The Escapist: But with MMOs, the inertia of the community is so so important
[Joystiq] Chris: Well, despite my role as Editorial Director of sites like WoW Insider and Massively, I'm not much of a MMOer -- but yeah, LOTRO and CoH/CoV seem to be the two with the most momentum.
jimgreer (Kongregate): and Guild Wars
Julianne - The Escapist: so WoW is hard to beat. And they came with their expansion at just the right time to keep from experiencing a lot of loss of playerbase
robfahey: It does feel like everyone else is just getting scraps from Blizzard's table right now
1upsamk: Julianne: Yeah, exactly. It feels strange to see WoW as one of the year's best games yet again, but they nailed it.
GamesRadar Eric: You know what I see happening with the MMO space is it's getting flooded by low-budget entries. I bet I get a press release once a week touting some new, free-to-play fantasy RPG, usually from Asia. Everyone wants to be the next Maple Story
GamesRadar Eric: or Runescape
[Joystiq] Chris: The other issue, is how much money is available to this market? If everyone is paying monthly *per game* (cept GW), then how many games can realy be a hit as long as Blizzard is gobbling up some $1b in annual revenue.
[GI] Andy Mc: well, some of those low budget games are making millions like Maple Story
1upsamk: Chris: You mean Activision Blizzard now.
[GI] Andy Mc: if its fun and a fad, people will pay....look at pokemon or any other expensive hobby
GamesRadar Eric: Yeah, it's weird. But I think they have the same problem as the pay-to-play stuff, which was just brought up: how many success stories will this space support?
jimgreer (Kongregate): I think the Activision deal will have no noticeable effect on Blizzard
1upsamk: I'm kidding btw :)
jimgreer (Kongregate): they didn't care what Vivendi did and they won't care what ATVI does either
[Joystiq] Chris: well, not Activision Blizzard yet, they still need approval. And I certainly don't approve of that name!
[GI] Andy Mc: and the more people that play MMOs or pay for Xbox Live, the more people out there that wil be willing to pay for such services
1upsamk: Chris: Actard!
[Joystiq] Chris: god bless you
robfahey: If your goose is laying golden eggs roughly the size of Texas, you let them do what they like.
Julianne - The Escapist: 1up: mmm yes. good.
GamesRadar Eric: I'd argue (see Rob! Arguing!) that Activision Blizzard will still be independent. Oh wait, that's agreement... But I don't see them having a Tony Hawk day in WoW or anything.
1upsamk: But yeah, I don't see anything challenging WoW anytime soon.
1upsamk: Eric: Oh, but just you wait until Shrek appears as the new Ogre race.
GamesRadar Eric: Nah. WoW has it right. It's just like how everyone keeps trying to compete with GTA, but can't get the formula.
robfahey: Couple of quick ones, as I think we're heading for the open question bit - which will certainly contain better questions than all of mine...
GamesRadar Eric: Sam, you are going to make me cry
1upsamk: rob: I certainly hope so!
robfahey: Casual games... Desktop Tower Defence got a mention earlier, and destroyed my productivity for a month. Anyone else have any favourites?
GamesRadar Eric: Line Rider. And Kung-fu Chess - an oldie but a goodie
jimgreer (Kongregate): I'd highly recommend Dolphin Olympics - it's like Tony Hawk but with dolphins jumping into space
[Joystiq] Chris: if only everything could be described that way
GamesRadar Eric: [makes note to try dolphin game] I'm all about water mammals
jimgreer (Kongregate): http://kongregate.com/games/arawkins/dolphin-olympics-2
1upsamk: JimGreer: I MUST PLAY THIS GAME YOU SPEAK OF
robfahey: I'm not sure I'd eat a breakfast cereal described like that, but I see your point.
[Joystiq] Chris: How about something like Puzzle Quest. That's an addictive little bugger
jimgreer (Kongregate): I got very into Pacman CE on XBLA, the best Pacman since Ms.
[Joystiq] Chris: Wow, Pac-Man CE. Yes. That game is phenomenal.
1upsamk: To be honest, I didn't play a lot of "casual" stuff -- at least, nothing that really comes to mind -- but I downloaded the shit out of some XBL and PSN games this year. Some really good stuff like Stardust HD and Pac-Man Championship Edition.
GamesRadar Eric: Puzzle Quest is the closest thing I've had to an addiction. I've played every version so far. So yes, I didn't include it because I wasn't thinking of it as casual, but dear heaven, YES.
[Joystiq] Chris: Also. Peggle. Don't hate.
Julianne - The Escapist: Yeah, I can't remember a whole lot. I tend to play a casual game while I'm mulling something else.
Julianne - The Escapist: mmm. peggle.
GamesRadar Eric: You know the neat thing about Pac-Man CE? It's good. How many permutations of Pac-Man have there been over the last 25 years, and this one works wonderfully.
jimgreer (Kongregate): the Peggle designer/programmer Eric Tams is probably the nicest guy in the whole game industry
GamesRadar Eric: Oh, one more: Pain, which Sony's about to release on PSN. Crazy fun.
GamesRadar Eric: Actually, it just came out, so scratch the "about"
[Joystiq] Chris: Somehow, he made Pac-Man relevant again. It's addictive. Just another round, try to beat that score. Again. And again. And again.
robfahey: Another quick (maybe) one for you... If I asked you to make Oscars-style picks for Best Music in a Videogame and Best Art in a Videogame, what would be your picks for the year?
Julianne - The Escapist: music - like song or soundtrack?
GamesRadar Eric: Best art is Odin Sphere and anyone who disagrees is a damn, dirty liar.
jimgreer (Kongregate): Bioshock gets my vote for best art
[Joystiq] Chris: We all know the song, amirite?!
1upsamk: Eric: Yeah, you're right there.
jimgreer (Kongregate): or at least best set design
GamesRadar Eric: Though I think BioShock should get points for the overall atmosphere and cohesiveness of that world. Phenomenal
jimgreer (Kongregate): I'd have to say Portal for best music
jimgreer (Kongregate): definitely most memorable music
robfahey: Well, I'm counting soundtrack and song as one really - I can certainly see how Portal would stand out for a lot of people, though.
Julianne - The Escapist: eternal sonata deserves a mention for art
Julianne - The Escapist: portal for song with still alive
1upsamk: Warhawk and Uncharted had some good music. Um...hmm...
[GI] Andy Mc: I loved the music in PGR4, not original but great....and who doesnt love "Still Alive?"
GamesRadar Eric: Portal was hot. I'd also suggest Everyday Shooter, not for the quality of the soundtrack but for what it did with it.
[GI] Andy Mc: Artwise, Im with bioshock as well
robfahey: Personally I'd pick Bioshock for music though. The use of the old early twentieth century tracks throughout the game was stunning.
Julianne - The Escapist: but, bioshock is really neat for art and score
jimgreer (Kongregate): does a game count for best music if the music *is* the game?
[Joystiq] Chris: VGAs = the first year they dropped the best original song category is the first year there's an original song in a video game worth celebrating.
1upsamk: Oh, Blue Dragon had some good music. Nobuo Uematsu is INSANE.
Julianne - The Escapist: rob: yes
jimgreer (Kongregate): in which case guitar hero vs rock band is the question
[Joystiq] Chris: Well, there's the debate between Guitar Hero and Rock Band.
Yes!
[Joystiq] Chris: I say Rock Band. Faith No More is all it takes.
Julianne - The Escapist: Chris: I KNOW
1upsamk: Rock Band gets my vote.
Julianne - The Escapist: Rock Band
robfahey: Not for me there isn't - we Europeans are "spared" the Rock Band debate until next year, when they bother letting us have the game. I'm only MILDLY seething over this, of course. Mildly.
GamesRadar Eric: Rock Band. It's bigger, more ambitious, and incredibly empowering ... IF you have the peeps to fill it out.
[Joystiq] Chris: I mailed one of my UK writers a copy. That was a large package :P
GamesRadar Eric: Don't fret, Rob. Maybe they'll sort out the hardware issues by then.
Julianne - The Escapist: I like the set list better. The songs are of wider variety
1upsamk: rob: It's OK. Maybe the versions you get won't have stickers on the box basically acknowledging that your shit is going to break down.
[GI] Andy Mc: I think im the only person in the world who likes GH3, mostly due to song selection and difficulty (plus I was a drummer in real life, so the rock band thing drives me a bit crazy)
robfahey: Okay - moving swiftly onwards, some questions from the lovely Xfire users.
robfahey: The undoubtedly lovely -:KSA:- Skree asks: Where would you rank singleplayer versus multiplayer in terms of FPS GOTY? Which do you think is more important to the gaming public as a whole?
GamesRadar Eric: Nice one. Is it a cop out to say it depends? [YES]
1upsamk: Eric: Heh heh.
Julianne - The Escapist: Wow. Great question.
GamesRadar Eric: That's a question I bet every person in the biz is trying to figure out.
[Joystiq] Chris: Hrm, hard one. Yeah, I have nothing to say except depends on the person. Gosh, that's lame. NEXT!
jimgreer (Kongregate): In terms of hours spent: multiplayer. In terms of dollars spent: single player
robfahey: I would always have rated singleplayer ahead of multiplayer, until I got so damn hooked on Halo 3.
[Joystiq] Chris: personally, I would pick BioShock over Halo 3, despite Halo 3's extremely robust multiplayer.
GamesRadar Eric: We've seen games succeed in both realms. personally, if I have to choose one or the other, I want great single-player, but I feel that's a matter of taste.
1upsamk: It's true though. As a whole, single player probably. But if you're buying the thing as a multiplayer game, then it's fair to judge it with that in mind.
1upsamk: Chris: Right, exactly.
[GI] Andy Mc: I personally put SP over MP, and I still feel that more people experience a game as a single player experience....but that wouldnt effect what game I choose for GOTY
Julianne - The Escapist: Well, it's like the PvP v. PvE thing in MMOs. there's probably an even group for each. The more experienced players tend to like the multiplayer.
[Joystiq] Chris: yeah, cause as a single player game TF2 is really terrible. One of the worst games of the year IMO :P
GamesRadar Eric: I think Jim nailed it.
robfahey: Next question, then...
jimgreer (Kongregate): ty
robfahey: The dashingly handsome D K Head would like to know: If you could pick one (and only one genre) to be restricted to for the rest of your life, what would you pick, and why? (this including the current movement of gaming as a whole)?
jimgreer (Kongregate): poker
GamesRadar Eric: I'd go RPGs, no question. Fly, geek flag, fly!
[GI] Andy Mc: easy....mmos
[Joystiq] Chris: Trick question! Portal isn't a genre!
[GI] Andy Mc: most variety and interaction
Julianne - The Escapist: RPG here as well
1upsamk: Yeah, I'm with you on RPGs
Julianne - The Escapist: because there's so much room for difference and storytelling
1upsamk: At least you're constantly leveling up in some manner.
[Joystiq] Chris: What I mean to say, is that more and more games are blending genres -- portal is puzzle and FPS
robfahey: That one seemed relatively easy, then
1upsamk: FPS isn't necessarily a genre though.
jimgreer (Kongregate): whoops, I thought it was one game, not one genre
GamesRadar Eric: Yeah, I think the most notable thing here is that genre tags are finally becoming completely useless.
[Joystiq] Chris: .... well, true. Action then.
1upsamk: well, first person, at least.
robfahey: So how about this poser from the wonderful Lunarbunny: Is art direction or technological achievement more important?
1upsamk: But yeah, it's true. You should have seen how many people got on our case about which games showed up in which categories for 1up's best of the year voting. I'm sure it was probably the same way with the VGAs.
[Joystiq] Chris: But that line is increaasingly blurred. Designers are pulling from an increasingly large (and poorly guarded!) bag of video game language.
[GI] Andy Mc: I tend to think great art direction can cover up bad tech.....so I go art direction
Julianne - The Escapist: I think that depends on the kind of game you're trying to create. If you're trying to make a game with a strong story, you'l want cinematics that support that. An action game is a bit more about the gameplay.
GamesRadar Eric: I vote art direction. It can run at 240 fps, but if it's boring to look at, I still don't care. It's the games that combine those two things that really amaze.
1upsamk: lunarbunny: art direction
jimgreer (Kongregate): If it were tech then we wouldn't be talking abot God of War II in this discussion
[Joystiq] Chris: depends?
1upsamk: greer: good point.
1upsamk: Another question!
[Joystiq] Chris: Yeah, for me it's art direction. Look at any Wii game = SMG isn't winning any awards for polygon pushing.
robfahey: Curses, more agreement between panelists. Well then, the probably quite mewling and furry Some_Kittens wants to know: Forget GOTY, what was the worst game this year?
robfahey: I like this question. :)
1upsamk: Oh here we go.
Julianne - The Escapist: ohnoes!
robfahey: Someone was bound to ask it!
jimgreer (Kongregate): it depends on what you let in
GamesRadar Eric: wow. [looks at shelf of games nobody in the office will play] gimme a sec...
jimgreer (Kongregate): if you sort games on Kongregate by lowest rated, you see some pretty amusing stuff
[GI] Andy Mc: The Golden Compass
1upsamk: Well, going by the average user review score on gamespot, I would have to say Kane & Lynch.
[Joystiq] Chris: For me, that's hard to answer. I don't review games, so I tend to avoid the stuff all our friends at the review outlets say are terrible (thanks, guys!)
jimgreer (Kongregate): I would invite people to sample the creations of MrCredsAlex whose games are almost works of art in their awfulness: http://www.kongregate.com/accounts/MrcredsAlex
[Joystiq] Chris: I don't have a lot of time to game, so I try to cherry pick games that I really think are going to be worth my time. That said, I'
GamesRadar Eric: I would have to go with one of those free casual PC games that publishers keep porting to DS and PSP, then charging $30 for.
[Joystiq] Chris: I've played some terrible Wii games
jimgreer (Kongregate): we had the booth next to Kane and Lynch at PAX, so I got very sick of it
jimgreer (Kongregate): I didn't really think it was that terrible though
1upsamk: You know what game I didn't like this year? Donkey Kong Barrel Blast.
robfahey: I know some people who would shoot me for this, but I think if I had to play any more of Two Worlds on the Xbox 360 I'd probably throw myself out the window. It's a second storey window, but I'm prepared to throw myself out as many times as it takes.
GamesRadar Eric: I can't speak to the worst game, but my most disappointing game was Space Giraffe. I worshipped Tempest 2000, but just couldn't get the handle on SG
Julianne - The Escapist: You know, I had a couple different people take Two Worlds home and bring it back the Next Day.
[Joystiq] Chris: rob: I've heard the same. That's high on our list of worst games of the year (what?)
Julianne - The Escapist: so
Julianne - The Escapist: that might be it
1upsamk: It was yet another one of those Wii games that made you do all this crap (shake the wiimote like a lunatic) that didn't make the game any more fun.
GamesRadar Eric: We're not counting junk like Chicken Shoot, right?
[Joystiq] Chris: sam: I think that game would have been a lot better with the bongos. Who knows though ...
GamesRadar Eric: Or the unholy palette swap that is Rock n Roll Adventure/Ninjabread Man/Anubis II?
1upsamk: Eric: Space Giraffe was indeed a disappointment. I like Tempest quite a bit. Minter's lost it or something.
[Joystiq] Chris: He's mad that no one bought it either. More people bought Frogger evidently.
robfahey: I'm one of the rare few that really "got" Space Giraffe, I think. It's definitely an acquired taste.
1upsamk: Chris: Yeah, probably. But yet again, another game uses the Wii control scheme as an excuse for bad gameplay. Annoying.
1upsamk: rob: Oh, but that's cause you're in the UK.
Julianne - The Escapist: Oh! I jsut saw someone mention Ninjabread Man in open
Julianne - The Escapist: wow
[Joystiq] Chris: Well, that's the #1, #2, and #3 complaint about the Wii, isn't it?
robfahey: We do all have a thing about sheep over here.
Julianne - The Escapist: that was special.
robfahey: Okay, another quick one, since we ended up talking about Wii anyway...
robfahey: The prolific :KSA:- Skree wants to know: Was Metroid Prime 3 perhaps one of the bigger disappointments of the year? What's your thoughts on the Wii's games in general? Do they lack a solid, mainstream game, or do you think Ninendo's provision this year has been sufficient?
1upsamk: Metroid Prime 3 is still on my list to play :( But I understood it was generally thought of as great.
robfahey: I'm disagreeing straight up about MP3 being a big disappointment - I loved that game, it's just a shame it landed between so many other FPS titles.
Julianne - The Escapist: I actually thought Metroid Prime 3 was quite good.
[GI] Andy Mc: there are a lot of horrible Wii games...but Nintendo's genius shines through and certainly raises the systems value.....I would relly like to see more third partyy games that arent ports that are good
jimgreer (Kongregate): I think the best 3rd party Wii games are still in the design stage
robfahey: But there does seem to be a general feeling that the Wii has disappointed on a software front, which is strangely set against the absolute impossibility of getting one at retail right now.
Julianne - The Escapist: The wii games have been pretty hit or miss. I think because of the unique control scheme, they are either really good (designed to utilize said scheme) or really ... not.
1upsamk: Nintendo's provision for the Wii is pretty much expected. I mean, seriously, how is it all that much different from any other hardware they've launched in the last 10 or so years? You've got your Zelda, Mario, and Metroid. K thanks Nintendo!
jimgreer (Kongregate): that's the price of doing something that catches developers off gaurd
jimgreer (Kongregate): I think there will be some great Wiiware games
[Joystiq] Chris: I suspect Nintendo doens't know what to do with a game like MP3. By all accounts, it was an excellent game, but the Prime series was sort of a vestigial leftover of the Gamecube days when Nintendo wanted to compete head to head with Sony and MS. They barely marketed the poor thing.
GamesRadar Eric: That's about seven questions in one. I wouldn't call MP3 the biggest disappointment, but I think it was more of the same and it perhaps also suffered because it was one of the first games to really show how far behind the competition the Wii is graphically. As for the overall lineup, I think there is the Nintendo library, and maybe three other games worth playing. Everythign else is an ugly port desperately trying to shoehorn fancy controls where they shouldn't be.
1upsamk: Most of the third parties are still trying to figure out the Wii, but that's OK -- we'll see much better stuff next year.
GamesRadar Eric: I hope you're right, Sam.
[Joystiq] Chris: sam: Agreed! The Wii may be much more successful, but it's a lot more like the Gamecube or N64 than might be evident at first blush.
Julianne - The Escapist: sam: yes. since the wii has sold so many units, it's worth for devs to go in and actually develop specifically for the wii
Julianne - The Escapist: because that's what's needed to make a great wii game
robfahey: I was going to ask this as a follow-up, but the extraordinarily difficult to pronounce [SJO]JkKolak*C got there first: Why do you think the Wii is in demand while many of the games were thought of as trash?
robfahey: Part of the same conversation, I guess.
1upsamk: Eric: We better! Also, I'm tired of hearing "it's geared towards the casual audience" as an excuse for sloppy gameplay.
Julianne - The Escapist: low barrier to entry
[Joystiq] Chris: Julianne: the problem is, Wii owners aren't really buying a lot of software. That's why you see green dev teams, and B-teams making low-cost Wii games. There's no AAA development on teh platform outside of Nintendo's efforts.
jimgreer (Kongregate): I think most people buying the Wii don't need as big a library as the average Xfire user. They play games casually, and they replay them a lot.
1upsamk: It's because of those two Japanese dudes driving around in their cute little car.
[Joystiq] Chris: jimgreer: Yup, for many folks it's a Wii Sports machine.
[GI] Andy Mc: for a large number of gamers, six games a year is about right....and the wii delivers that and is a different experience that is exciting and new to a llot of gamers
GamesRadar Eric: The easy answer is that it's captured the attention of the mainstream market - and they're much less discerning with game quality - in a way I don't personally recall seeing since the original NES. The lower price surely helps, too.
1upsamk: They're showing up everywhere and getting people to play. Nice guys, really.
[Joystiq] Chris: I can't really think of 6 Wii games from last year that I would want -- SMG, MP3, ... WarioWare? ...
Julianne - The Escapist: chris: the same reason it's selling a lot of hardware is the reason ppl aren't buying software. the wii system comes as a plug n play with wii sports
robfahey: You hear a lot of anecdotal stories about newcomers to gaming being surprised that you can actually take the Wii Sports disc out of the drive and put different games in...
[Joystiq] Chris: Rob: You do not hear that, do you?!
jimgreer (Kongregate): Chris - Mario Strikers Charged
[GI] Andy Mc: RE4 was good, Zach and Wiki, Truama center
GamesRadar Eric: Yeah, and casual users don't buy software in the same volumes as hardcore folks. It's selling to people who buy four games a year. Is that sustainable? We'll see.
[Joystiq] Chris: Oooh, Zack and Wiki. yeah.
Julianne - The Escapist: trauma center was quite fun
[Joystiq] Chris: RE4? Same game in widescreen mode this time.